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Subject: Hidden Info in a Co-op/ Co-petative Game rss

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Mr Osterman
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We got our copy and had a play through the tutorial. I was an early backer so as soon as I could I also printed out the Print and Play, sleeved them and we did several plays of that, focusing on Sunday Morning Date and High School Sweethearts. Perhaps 4 plays isn’t enough to judge a game but we have only 1 win out of those Four.

This last game was one where we found ourselves pretty locked into only two possible destinies that could work: Love Team or Unconditional Love. I had made the “mistake” to take the Nice Trait which required a pretty high sum of Shared Positive Kindness. My wife had selected Cocky which required the opposite. Despite both playing to each other’s strengths as best we could, we didn’t end with enough Kindness for either of us to hit the “Unconditional Love” so we both tried for Love Team only to find that we were 5 points apart in Satisfaction.

The killing blow was my inability to score all three of my traits; failing to hit Nice kept me from keeping up with her happiness and... Another Loss.

Now the rules say “Do not tell the other player what your cards are”. Being gamers we tend to play pretty tight to the rules so I avoided all of the following:

“I need Kindness”

“I need more chances to show you how Kind I am.”

“Is there a reason you’re wracking up the Unkind thing?”

Since we were trying play this more co-op it really was frustrating to try to guess at the other and still make the ~math~ of winning work. Perhaps we’re not very good at it yet?

Overall the story is fun and I want more plays (I’m an RPG nerd at heart, more than a board gamer) but if each time we put it away we go “well that was a hard loss” it’s just not going to see the table much.

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Gerry Valentine
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You should be able to deduce what your partner's trait requirements are by paying attention to how they answer questions and what personality aspects they're trying to build up,and they should be doing the same for you.

It's kind of like a real relationship, in that it's possible for you to be diametrically opposed on certain traits. Just like Jacob says on the Kickstarter campaign:

Yet sometimes compromise is not possible. When this happens, when your interests are directly opposing, you still have some options left in the game:

* Find happiness in other ways.
* Change your character’s personality to align with your partner.
* Form a story where your character’s satisfaction is not essential.
* Prepare to leave the relationship.

Deciding how to cope with differences is key when playing the game.
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Mr Osterman
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gerrylum wrote:


Deciding how to cope with differences is key when playing the game.


Absolutely!

I think that one part might be the more basic rule set for the “tutorial” (I didn’t see ANY change your partner cards or change me cards) coupled with the limited destinies for the “easier” games but I still question that balance point between open vs hidden info when you’re (generally) trying to win or lose together.

Plus like any relationship you don’t know exactly why someone made the choice they did. Did they do it to please you? To satisfy their own inner character? To be generally happier (more happiness to just get the agreement now)

Being able to map out paths to victory is generally part of a coop game where the two people collaborate on how to get to the win. I’m curious how much we could open up that communication and still get a fair “challenge” or maybe we should just skip to the harder chapters/ more destiny options.....
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Cameron McKenzie
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If your characters are completely incompatible, it may be better to try to do Unconditional Love.

Since your satisfaction does not matter, you can ignore your traits and just do everything you can to make your partner happy.

If your partner has already been playing Unkind, this works out well because they will be able to fulfill a Dominant destiny (a good complement for Unconditional Love)

In our second game, we tried to finish in this way. Unfortunately, the satisfactions ended at 39-22. The Dominant player was able to achieve their destiny but the Unconditional Love player was just a bit short.


I think you might be mistaken about the Destiny names though. What you called Unconditional Love sounds like Love Team, and what you called Love Team sounds like Equal Partners.
(Particularly, Unconditional Love doesn’t require any kindness, only sincerity, unless I’m mistaken)
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Mr Osterman
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MasterDinadan wrote:


I think you might be mistaken about the Destiny names though. What you called Unconditional Love sounds like Love Team, and what you called Love Team sounds like Equal Partners.
(Particularly, Unconditional Love doesn’t require any kindness, only sincerity, unless I’m mistaken)


I think you're not wrong.

We just knocked out another game, specifically High School Sweethearts and easily ran into a win, though again, finding ways to show Postive Green (Kindness?) was silly hard for us and I missed that trait by the end. We did manage to read each other I think we lucked into totally compatible traits as a couple which made it easier. And that story was longer so we had more chances to make tweeks.

I will admit that even with that it still feels ... odd? ... to keep trying to read the other and I remain curious as to the level of mystery we're "allowed" to break when talking through our choices. On some levels I could hint at my traits which would help us plan better at the same time it's hard to say (for us) if even that is a no-go.

 
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Cameron McKenzie
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It’s not necessarily important that you know all of your partner’s traits. As long as you know that they aren’t opposite to your traits, you’re probably ok. (If they are opposite but both traits are individual, that’s not such a big deal either)

For players who are strategic about it, you can infer a lot of possibilities from the beginning.

There is a good chance that a player’s chosen occupation aligns with one of their traits (at least, it almost definitely isn’t opposite one of their traits)

When assigning features to your partner, you should adding features that align with your shared balance traits. If that’s not possible, assign features that match your partner’s occupation or features they played on you (if you can’t help yourself, at least help them). Of course, you don’t want to go against your shared balance traits when assigning features.

Kindness and Sincerity are a little different since they play into your destinies. The balance is important even if you don’t have traits, so even if you can’t do anything helpful for traits, you might choose to play with those if nothing else works for your traits.

Pay particular attention to Sincerity, since Unconditional Love does not care about one’s own satisfaction. A player pushing high Sincerity may not care about their own traits at all and they want you to satisfy yours - in that case, don’t waste scenes trying to satisfy the sincere partner.
 
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