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Subject: How to play this game? rss

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Mark Perry
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So I have played the original, published game files before Todd pulled them. I would like to back the game at the KS, but am concerned. I have played the game about 5-6 times, and in each game I have found it extremely difficult to get a single clue. In the game I just played, I wasn't able to get one single clue. I did acquire two items (the paperboy, then the underground contact), but even with these and added icons to the twist, and my special abilities I wasn't able to mitigate the luck factor of the dice which really seems cruelly balanced against me...

Are there any suggested winning strategies that people have found work in this game? I should note that I wasn't playing with any of the expansions.

I would like to write-up some favorable game sessions of the game, but won't be able to if I can't even get close to winning a game (like not getting a single clue in several 20 minute game periods).

Thanks!
Mark
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Joy Cohn
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I have yet to play a game, as we've been busy with things leading up to the holidays. Time is freeing up in the next couple of days, and I'll be able to dive into it.

Thanks for posting - I'll see if I have the same experience and let you know.
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Jim Greenwood
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I requested a video playthrough from Todd on the PnP game as I thought it would help out. But I imagine bringing the game to print must be keeping him quite busy.
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Mark Perry
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I have absolutely no issue in playing the game. It's the strategy that has really alluded me. If you don't have this, the game is really quite cruel. (Unless the point of it is that you never make it to the Mastermind ... Which I doubt).

I remember that when the game was in WIP it suffered from being too random: That it seemed broken because of the randomness essentially of the dice. When the game shifted from WIP to finished, I presumed that those kinks we're sorted out. My playthroughs, however makes me think maybe not?

(But I refuse to believe this is the case since the game is going to Kickstarter, and surely Todd and Alban would have made sure it worked before advancing the game in that way...)

Which is the reason for this thread. I am not the best player in the world, but surely I should be getting at least three clues per game!
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todd sanders
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Grejam53 wrote:
I requested a video playthrough from Todd on the PnP game as I thought it would help out. But I imagine bringing the game to print must be keeping him quite busy.


Yes I am rather busy these days. We are beginning to gear up for the KS campaign so I am doing a lot of graphics in support of this. The publisher - Alban Viard - and I have been making improvements to the game and creating some new variants. We've been working to try and create decision trees that affect the dice in various ways allowing the player to have more control over the game. This is natural when you go from a PnP to a published version. I feel the game has gotten much stronger and I am happy Alban sees what I saw in it.

I'd like to do a playthrough video for this one (I have to do one for Odin Quest this week) but I will have to craft a new set of components to do that and that may be another week before I can get to that. I will see how quickly I can get one out though for everyone.
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todd sanders
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MarkP1981 wrote:
I have absolutely no issue in playing the game. It's the strategy that has really alluded me. If you don't have this, the game is really quite cruel. (Unless the point of it is that you never make it to the Mastermind ... Which I doubt).

I remember that when the game was in WIP it suffered from being too random: That it seemed broken because of the randomness essentially of the dice. When the game shifted from WIP to finished, I presumed that those kinks we're sorted out. My playthroughs, however makes me think maybe not?

(But I refuse to believe this is the case since the game is going to Kickstarter, and surely Todd and Alban would have made sure it worked before advancing the game in that way...)

Which is the reason for this thread. I am not the best player in the world, but surely I should be getting at least three clues per game!



Yes we are indeed improving the game as we go and Alban is doing extensive playtests with his team of players.

The PnP version now exists in a sort of inbetween state. The PnP version works but the published version is improving upon it in many ways. I can't really go back and modify the PnP version because of what is happening with the published edition.



I can say for the PnP the sort of strategies to think about:

The choice of which card to use in Phase 1 is important. The storylines on the cards are weighted to give you a better change at certain things you need.

Informant cards give you a better chance of Clues

Cliffhangers cards give you a better chance at Stamina. Keeping your Stamina up is important because this gives you more dice to roll and therefore a better chance of rolling the icons you need.

It is very important (and thematically the narrative of being the detective solving the case) that you really look at the dice and choose which give you the icons you want to roll and choose the order in which you roll them. The dice are definitely not the same (and we've changed the die faces for the Paperboy and Underworld dice to further this). Definitely plan which die to roll and when.

The Twist icons are changing a bit in the published edition as well and they will help you mitigate luck.

Yes the game can be cruel. I am trying hard to hit that 15-20% win condition




We will of course provide a PDF of the rules for the KS campaign so anyone can read through and make up their mind about the game. I am happy to continue answering questions as well. All of your feedback helps Alban and I immensely in judging how the players are finding the game, the rough spots and things that work.

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Mark Perry
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dumarest123 wrote:


It is very important (and thematically the narrative of being the detective solving the case) that you really look at the dice and choose which give you the icons you want to roll and choose the order in which you roll them. The dice are definitely not the same (and we've changed the die faces for the Paperboy and Underworld dice to further this). Definitely plan which die to roll and when.



Huh. Hadn't considered doing that. If that's a strategy for use in the published KS game, have you considered making it obvious that player ought to do this, and also some way to make clear to players which of the d6 has different distributions of icons? Maybe using different icon colors? (Like the icons are black on one die, but red on another (but with the die itself being yellow, still...)
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todd sanders
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well this is why there are the asterisks on the faces, to denote which faces are repeated on each die

we can't do different colors on the dice (too expensive) but the asterisks are there.

the rules state this in the PnP and more forcefully in the published edition.

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Freddie Christian
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To gain an item, the rules says:

Gain/Lose Item - If an item is gained, look at the die icon on the top Investigate Card on the discard pile and place a cube on the matching die icon on your Items Card (draw the next card on the discard deck if the previously drawn card shows a icon). This is the Item gained. You may only hold 1 Item at a time. Place any cards drawn on the bottom of the discard pile afterwards. If an item is lost, place the cube back on “Dead End” at the top of the card.

What if the die icon is a Hat or Question Mark, do I draw another discard like with the Diamond icon if its a Hat or get a clue if it's a Question Mark? Not sure if I understand how to use the Discard pile when receiving an Item. Thanks for any help.
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Mark Perry
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You can't get clues in this way. I don't have my cards in front of me, but IIRC, you can only get clues by Following a Lead.

I seem to recall that there's a rule somewhere that suggests that if the first card you look at isn't what you need, you keep turning over cards in the discard pile till a value comes up...
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Freddie Christian
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Thanks for the quick reply. That makes more sense and ties in with the card you choose for that round. I've been trying the game out on Tabletopia, looking forward to the KS. Looks like you have to flip the discard and get the die icon item 1-6. If its a blank die icon, you can go to the next discard and repeat.
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todd sanders
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Yes Freddie you are correct. Use the die icon in the upper right of the card to determine the Item gained and yes if a blank icon then keep flipping.

The die icons will only be pip faces. Never any other icons. This is only for when you Gain an Item
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Chris Clarke
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Quote:
It is very important (and thematically the narrative of being the detective solving the case) that you really look at the dice and choose which give you the icons you want to roll and choose the order in which you roll them. The dice are definitely not the same (and we've changed the die faces for the Paperboy and Underworld dice to further this). Definitely plan which die to roll and when.


Are you always allowed to choose which die to roll? For example. A case I'm working on requires bullets and newspapers. Can I just keep rolling the double "bullets and newspaper" die for my, say, first turn 4 rolls?
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todd sanders
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You can choose the order in which to roll the dice and there can be options to reroll already rolled dice but no you can't just roll the same die each time. Dice are 'locked', as we say, once rolled. Your detective's special action, some of the Twist counters and some items may allow for manipulation of locked dice.
 
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Chris Clarke
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Gotcha. My first game I played through with the correct RAW on Tabletopia and only had only 2 successful Investigations the whole game.

I just finished my second game using my "modified and incorrect" interpretation as above and won easily.

Seems there needs to be something in between which is what you're working on. Can elaborate on exactly what kinds of mitigation you're testing, beyond what you've said already?
 
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Mark Perry
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Once I figured out how one is supposed to play, I found that it was easier, but by no means was it easy.

Did you remember to reduce the hours throughout the game? I found this tricky to remember, but if implemented, I think the game can be tough.
 
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Chris Clarke
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In my first game, I definitely caught on how the dice had different frequencies of symbols. But with rolling 4 yellow's to start, there's no decisions to make. I never got to 5 dice with Stamina or Items, so I never had a choice. I just rolled as many as I could.

I definitely reduced the hours...and if I forgot, it didn't matter...I was as far from winning the game in the last turn as I was in the first.


Are we talking about the same thing? Are you saying that having the choice of 5th or 6th die made all the difference in your play(s)?
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Mark Perry
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I will post a detailed game report/session. I hi k thatightake things clearer. I don't think my rolls are atypical, but I didn't find it an easy game.
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todd sanders
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Hi Chris

I only win about 20% of the time which is about the ration Alban has experienced in his playtest groups, both as solo and 2 player sessions.

I can't gauge your Tabletopia play and you may have just been lucky and found a win. It is hard to say.

All I can say for sure here is that we keep playtesting and keep learning.
 
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Chris Clarke
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I think you're both misunderstanding...

Quote:
I just finished my second game using my "modified and incorrect" interpretation as above and won easily.


I meant I played with my misinterpretation where I could roll any die I wanted for each yellow allocation instead of locking the die as you informed me...

I played my first game, the one where I only had two mission successes in total, completely correctly as far as I understand it. It was so difficult I reread the rules and thought maybe you could roll any die you wanted EACH time you rolled. That is when I won easily. I then came to this topic thread and asked my question, to make sure I was playing correctly. I wasn't.

Mark seemed to find the game easier once he took your advice of "choosing which die to roll", at which point I started to question if I was playing correctly...again...
 
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todd sanders
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Ah Ha! Thanks for the clarification Chris. I appreciate you clearing my confusion.
 
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Chris Clarke
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Session report:

Played with Jim Daly, foots are wild at night.

Beginner.

Got stamina up 1 to 6 using special ability of Daly, then failed three in a row which took me to 18 time, so no more special abilities. Then failed a mission which took my stamina back to 5.

Summary of rest of game...Had three more successes making a total of 4 for the whole game. Got the Pay phone which I never used because I immediately got the Taxi and bumped myself to 6 Stamina. Tried to spam stamina draws and eventually got to 7 stamina at time 6. Special ability didn't help once I was in night. Eventually hit Time 4 and stopped as there was not enough time left to win.

So...Beginner, Daly, Daly special ability helped to get one Mission Success for Stamina. Other successes were Stamina, Pay phone (never used) and Taxi (used for 1 Stamina).

Final board, no items, no clues, 7 stamina. 4 of 11 missions successful, stopping play at time 4.
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Chris Clarke
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Also...choosing which die to reroll came into play 4 times for matches. Only helped with a success once.
 
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Chris Clarke
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I know you're play testing with different rules, just throwing my experience in there...
 
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todd sanders
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Thanks Chris
 
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