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Forbidden Stars» Forums » General

Subject: Poll: Fixing the Space Marines (or not) rss

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Steve
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Poll
What's the best way to buff the Space Marines for faction balance?
Include a bastion in their initial forces.
Make their faction ability free.
Other. Please comment.
They're fine. Do nothing.
      79 answers
Poll created by stevepop
 
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Tim Mercer
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I voted they're fine. Do nothing BUT I only have five plays of Forbidden Stars so far and in only two of those have we used the Space Marines, so what do I know?

Forbidden Stars is rapidly becoming one of my most thought about games though, so over the holidays I should be getting some more plays in. I'll be sure to include Space Marines in every game and see if I think they need buffing.


***edited number of plays
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Ymrde Buno
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They are strong enough. Ppl just think they are weak bcs they read it here.
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Niko
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Eurox wrote:
They are strong enough. Ppl just think they are weak bcs they read it here.
Seeing how the designer is one of the people who wrote that they are weaker this is perfectly understandable.

Personally I don't think they need a buff, I don't play the game anywhere near enough to get to a level where a small imbalance will be the deciding factor for who wins.
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Scott Randolph
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We have done the following:

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/150604/mhs2-fs-house-rule...

After two games with these changes, they still haven't won. Ultramarines lack the mobility of the Eldar and combat/high-health advantage of the Orks, Chaos Marines are slightly better due to combat cards and movement through warp storms.

Main disadvantages of the Ultrmarines are regular mobility, and special ability mobility, compared to what other Factions have; "Ork Rocks" as just one example.

Even novice, first-time players, win with the Eldar over experienced players with Ultramarines (I did in a 4p game, and so did a recent new player).

If everyone else wants to play them RAW and say "they are just fine," doesn't bother me...in our group players won't play the Ultramarines more than once (in light of the facts of their winless record, ok, I won one game with them, but that's it) unless we use the attached modifications, and still the Ultramarines finish in last place.

To answer the typical retorts...yes, we know how to play, yes, we are all experienced war gamers, no, the people who play Ultramarines do not suck, no, it's not because "we do not understand them"...blah blah blah blah blah.
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Sebastian Grab
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I vote other, after 40 games played, 99% of them with 3 players.

But the "other" still includes a free bastion. Our home rule is to give it to them, but it has to placed with another unit during initial deployment on the map.

We tested free bastion placed anywhere, and it turend out to be a little too strong, giving SM too much map control. They were able to cover all the planets they place, and that would often turn into a lot of free recources, 8-16 even, in extreme cases. Restricion of placing it with another unit solved this problem a little bit.

So yes, SM needs help in my opinion, but not too much of it.
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nicholas nicholas
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I voted for add a bastion, and that's how we play them in my group... but honestly, I'd rather just buff the drop pods upgrade (not the combat card) to always produce a unit. Feels like you've wasted your turn when that doesn't work.
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Zenphos Ruby-Eye
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I actually quite like the idea of replacing a scout with a bastion instead. Free one is a bit much.
 
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Zenphos Ruby-Eye
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Also not sure why people think they are weak.
They are quite weak at the start, so you need to defend and can't expand quickly like Orcs and Chaos, and to a lesser extant Eldar.
But also means you don't have to worry about building lots of units early. At 2 city tech (command level 2) you are the most powerful faction in the game. Don't over commit or expand too far until then, and don't buy too many space marine cards, since although they are ok in defence, for attacking you really need land raiders, which means of course using dominate to upgrade them.

 
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Scott Randolph
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Zenphos wrote:
Also not sure why people think they are weak.
They are quite weak at the start, so you need to defend and can't expand quickly like Orcs and Chaos, and to a lesser extant Eldar.
But also means you don't have to worry about building lots of units early. At 2 city tech (command level 2) you are the most powerful faction in the game. Don't over commit or expand too far until then, and don't buy too many space marine cards, since although they are ok in defence, for attacking you really need land raiders, which means of course using dominate to upgrade them.



In a way, I actually agree with you, at Cmnd2 and especially with our group's combat card upgrades, the Ultramarines crush their opponents. The problem we have found is that by this time in the game they are already behind, and are too slow to be able to catch up. In one recent game I played the Ultramarines and decisively won 3 battles in the mid-to-late game, destroying most, if not all, of my opponent's units; but Eldar hit 4 VP's and Orks had 3, as did the Chaos Marines, so the result was kind of "the usual:" Ultramarines in last place.

We're still struggling with how to make them competitive against the Eldar's and Ork's greater mobility, mobility seems to us the key to winning.
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Lowly Resident
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I played a game with ultramarines this weekend and won against my SO who played chaos marines (granted is less experienced than me). My initial impression was that despite her inexperience the ultramarines can win fights early on using their reinforcement tokens and swing the game in their favor by being aggressive early game.
 
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Zenphos Ruby-Eye
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SFRR wrote:
Zenphos wrote:
Also not sure why people think they are weak...



In a way, I actually agree with you, at Cmnd2 and especially with our group's combat card upgrades, the Ultramarines crush their opponents. The problem we have found is that by this time in the game they are already behind, and are too slow to be able to catch up. In one recent game I played the Ultramarines and decisively won 3 battles in the mid-to-late game, destroying most, if not all, of my opponent's units; but Eldar hit 4 VP's and Orks had 3, as did the Chaos Marines, so the result was kind of "the usual:" Ultramarines in last place.

We're still struggling with how to make them competitive against the Eldar's and Ork's greater mobility, mobility seems to us the key to winning.


Mobility is a key to winning, but so is survivability, in other words when you lose fights your units survive. This makes the mobile strike force approach very risky, as a failed attack leaves you exposed to a counter attack with a blocked retreat path.
But I think player skill, and learning how to read the game and react appropriately is the biggest key to winning.
I play a lot with good players and it is generally the person who pulls off a nasty, cunning move that no one saw coming who goes on to win.
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