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Subject: Forcing someone to put a Counter? rss

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Marko Kemenj
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We came at the situation that require one player to put counter from his reinforcement on the system, but he haven't any...they are all on the his race sheet.
So what happend in this situacion ?

I know for sure that when Diplomacy Strategy card require all player to put his race Counter into system choosen by active player,if any player can't put from his reinforcement he must choose one Counter from his sheet (Tactic/Fleet/Strategy) and put into system choosen by active player of Diplomacy card.

But what happend when,like in our situacion, Action card (Signal Jamming) require one player to put his Counter but all of his Counters are on his Race sheet....what then?
Also question refering to all other effect that require some/any player to put Counter on the board...but don't have any in his reinforcement.
 
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possum man
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Then they can't be targetted by the Signal Jamming.

21.3 A component action cannot be performed if its ability cannot be
completely resolved.


If someone cannot take a CC from their reinforcements, then it cannot be fully resolved.

When you are retreating:

67.7 If the player has no command tokens in his reinforcements, he must use one from his command sheet instead.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any other effects that require you to use a CC from your reinforcements, but if thye are component actions (e.g. action cards) then they would be immmune to them.
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Thomas Robb
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Rule 30.2

If a player has no command tokens in his reinforcements,
he places one of his choice from his command sheet

 
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Marko Kemenj
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That Rule 30.2 is strictly for a Diplomacy Strategy card,we know that.

But there is no rule addresed for other situacions that require someone to put counter on the board.
 
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Clayton Threadgill
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possumman wrote:
Then they can't be targetted by the Signal Jamming.

21.3 A component action cannot be performed if its ability cannot be
completely resolved.


If someone cannot take a CC from their reinforcements, then it cannot be fully resolved.

When you are retreating:

67.7 If the player has no command tokens in his reinforcements, he must use one from his command sheet instead.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any other effects that require you to use a CC from your reinforcements, but if thye are component actions (e.g. action cards) then they would be immmune to them.

Agreed. This is a remarkable difference from TI3, where the ruling was that the player would have to take a command token from on of his pools.

Between this, and the debate over the Shields Holding card, a pattern has emerged where the new format of the rules has changed things. What used to be broad rules must now be applied to specific actions, meaning many of the assumed ways of doing things do not apply to action cards.
 
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Marko Kemenj
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Also one more situacion came to me.

Last day we played TI4 for the first time. And we have a situacion that need to be addresed in official FAQ.
If someone use PDS and score a Hit, player that score a hit ask me: "Can i use DIRECT HIT Action card?" And when you read card...it looks like it is feasible.
Now you ask how can this be possible...That was my reaction also.
But look at the text of DIRECT HIT Card: "After another player's ship use SUSTAIN DAMAGE to cancel hit produced by your UNITS - Destroy that ship"
And if a Dreadnought,War Sun,Flagship or Sol's Carrier use SUSTAIN DAMAGE...it appear that this card can be used to destroy one of those units.

There is no restriction that effect from the card can only be used in Space Battle (like in TI3).
I need your interpretation for this situacion.
 
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Clayton Threadgill
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MareCagiva wrote:
Also one more situacion came to me.

Last day we played TI4 for the first time. And we have a situacion that need to be addresed in official FAQ.
If someone use PDS and score a Hit, player that score a hit ask me: "Can i use DIRECT HIT Action card?" And when you read card...it looks like it is feasible.
Now you ask how can this be possible...That was my reaction also.
But look at the text of DIRECT HIT Card: "After another player's ship use SUSTAIN DAMAGE to cancel hit produced by your UNITS - Destroy that ship"
And if a Dreadnought,War Sun,Flagship or Sol's Carrier use SUSTAIN DAMAGE...it appear that this card can be used to destroy one of those units.

There is no restriction that effect from the card can only be used in Space Battle (like in TI3).
I need your interpretation for this situacion.

Direct Hit:
Quote:
After another player's ship uses SUSTAIN DAMAGE to cancel a hit produced by your units:

Destroy that ship.

There's absolutely nothing on the card that indicates that it can only be used in combat. What's the reasoning that says otherwise?

Text from TI3 doesn't count. This is a new game.
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Thomas Robb
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Regarding the Direct Hit

would not using the Direct Hit Action Card be a second action
immediately after the PDS fire action?

you cannot play two actions in a row
unless you have another Action card
that lets you?

confusion .. . . . .
 
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Jan Probst
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Direct hit plays reactively, not as "Action:", so I'm not sure what you're on about.
 
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Adam McLean
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thomasrobb wrote:

Regarding the Direct Hit

would not using the Direct Hit Action Card be a second action
immediately after the PDS fire action?

you cannot play two actions in a row
unless you have another Action card
that lets you?

confusion .. . . . .


After reading your question, it makes me wonder if they could have named the Action cards something a little different, although one you know it isn't a big deal ... Even though they are called 'action cards', they are not necessarily actions themselves. However, some cards and race powers are completed as actions, but those cards and powers will say so on the card itself, it'll look like:

Action:.......

If it doesn't say 'Action', then it simply gets played how the card describes ... Before combat, After a player, etc.
 
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Kyle Meighan
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hooliganj wrote:
MareCagiva wrote:
Also one more situacion came to me.

Last day we played TI4 for the first time. And we have a situacion that need to be addresed in official FAQ.
If someone use PDS and score a Hit, player that score a hit ask me: "Can i use DIRECT HIT Action card?" And when you read card...it looks like it is feasible.
Now you ask how can this be possible...That was my reaction also.
But look at the text of DIRECT HIT Card: "After another player's ship use SUSTAIN DAMAGE to cancel hit produced by your UNITS - Destroy that ship"
And if a Dreadnought,War Sun,Flagship or Sol's Carrier use SUSTAIN DAMAGE...it appear that this card can be used to destroy one of those units.

There is no restriction that effect from the card can only be used in Space Battle (like in TI3).
I need your interpretation for this situacion.

Direct Hit:
Quote:
After another player's ship uses SUSTAIN DAMAGE to cancel a hit produced by your units:

Destroy that ship.

There's absolutely nothing on the card that indicates that it can only be used in combat. What's the reasoning that says otherwise?

Text from TI3 doesn't count. This is a new game.


Is a PDS a "unit"? If not, that's the reasoning. Because the sustain damage was not used to cancel a hit produced by your "units."

-One Wolf
 
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Scott Lewis
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One_Wolf wrote:
hooliganj wrote:
MareCagiva wrote:
Also one more situacion came to me.

Last day we played TI4 for the first time. And we have a situacion that need to be addresed in official FAQ.
If someone use PDS and score a Hit, player that score a hit ask me: "Can i use DIRECT HIT Action card?" And when you read card...it looks like it is feasible.
Now you ask how can this be possible...That was my reaction also.
But look at the text of DIRECT HIT Card: "After another player's ship use SUSTAIN DAMAGE to cancel hit produced by your UNITS - Destroy that ship"
And if a Dreadnought,War Sun,Flagship or Sol's Carrier use SUSTAIN DAMAGE...it appear that this card can be used to destroy one of those units.

There is no restriction that effect from the card can only be used in Space Battle (like in TI3).
I need your interpretation for this situacion.

Direct Hit:
Quote:
After another player's ship uses SUSTAIN DAMAGE to cancel a hit produced by your units:

Destroy that ship.

There's absolutely nothing on the card that indicates that it can only be used in combat. What's the reasoning that says otherwise?

Text from TI3 doesn't count. This is a new game.


Is a PDS a "unit"? If not, that's the reasoning. Because the sustain damage was not used to cancel a hit produced by your "units."

-One Wolf

A PDS is definitely a unit. See section 85 of the rules, PDS are listed there. Every plastic piece is a unit (as well as the Infantry and Fighter tokens).
 
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Kyle Meighan
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sigmazero13 wrote:
One_Wolf wrote:
hooliganj wrote:
MareCagiva wrote:
Also one more situacion came to me.

Last day we played TI4 for the first time. And we have a situacion that need to be addresed in official FAQ.
If someone use PDS and score a Hit, player that score a hit ask me: "Can i use DIRECT HIT Action card?" And when you read card...it looks like it is feasible.
Now you ask how can this be possible...That was my reaction also.
But look at the text of DIRECT HIT Card: "After another player's ship use SUSTAIN DAMAGE to cancel hit produced by your UNITS - Destroy that ship"
And if a Dreadnought,War Sun,Flagship or Sol's Carrier use SUSTAIN DAMAGE...it appear that this card can be used to destroy one of those units.

There is no restriction that effect from the card can only be used in Space Battle (like in TI3).
I need your interpretation for this situacion.

Direct Hit:
Quote:
After another player's ship uses SUSTAIN DAMAGE to cancel a hit produced by your units:

Destroy that ship.

There's absolutely nothing on the card that indicates that it can only be used in combat. What's the reasoning that says otherwise?

Text from TI3 doesn't count. This is a new game.


Is a PDS a "unit"? If not, that's the reasoning. Because the sustain damage was not used to cancel a hit produced by your "units."

-One Wolf

A PDS is definitely a unit. See section 85 of the rules, PDS are listed there. Every plastic piece is a unit (as well as the Infantry and Fighter tokens).


Yep, there it is, defintely a unit. You are correct, I see no basis for it not being used for PDS fire.
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