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Subject: Enemy push rss

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Dan Likos
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In the situation below, the enemy gets push 2 on all adjacent opponents.

Do the characters get pushed orthogonally back 1 space restricted by the wall or 2 spaces a bit diagonally from the pusher?

Thanks.

 
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Josh
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I believe it is player choice? I could be wrong.
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Dan Likos
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Shadrach wrote:
I believe it is player choice? I could be wrong.


If both paths were 2 long I would believe you for sure. Just wonder if I'm forced to take the 2 path... because it's 2, on a 2 push.

 
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David Bell
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There's been a bit of back and forth on this subject. It seems like the basic gist has settled out to be: push 2 is executed like 'push two times'. Each push has to move the target further away if possible, but you don't have to choose where to go on the first push to make room for the second push.
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Mauro Moura
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Chipacabra wrote:
There's been a bit of back and forth on this subject. It seems like the basic gist has settled out to be: push 2 is executed like 'push two times'. Each push has to move the target further away if possible, but you don't have to choose where to go on the first push to make room for the second push.


This is pretty much my interpretation of this situation as well. Both pushes are rules legal so you choose. If this isn't the case push 2 would be super limiting in some situations.

What you can't do is move them once towads the wall then move them once again diagonaly cause in this case the second push square wouldn't be moving them farther from the enemy.
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Alex Florin
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Each hex of a push has to be further away onto an unblocked hex if it is available, with each hex evaluated one at a time. If there are more than one hexes available as each hex is is evaluated, players decide.
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Dan Likos
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So in the example below, the Wind Demon (lower left enemy) gets a push 2 on both characters. The Brute (top right character) could choose to not get pushed, as he could declare push 1 into the wall to his right?

 
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Jay Johnson
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dlikos wrote:
So in the example below, the Wind Demon (lower left enemy) gets a push 2 on both characters. The Brute (top right character) could choose to not get pushed, as he could declare push 1 into the wall to his right?

No, if there is an unoccupied hex (that meets the requirements for the forced move: one space closer to the puller, or one space farther from the pusher) anywhere adjacent to the target of the forced move, then they have to move into it.

But sometimes there is an option where the target can choose to be pushed/pulled for the first move of a 2+ forced move, which doesn't have any further possible movement for the remaining forced move. For instance, the non-brute character (lower left) could choose to get pushed back and to the left (zapruder film) for the first move, but then there would be no further movement (where as if it chose to go back and to the right, it would then be pushed an additional hex to the right, unless the brute had already been pushed there)
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Josh
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JayJ79 wrote:
dlikos wrote:
So in the example below, the Wind Demon (lower left enemy) gets a push 2 on both characters. The Brute (top right character) could choose to not get pushed, as he could declare push 1 into the wall to his right?

No, if there is an unoccupied hex (that meets the requirements for the forced move: one space closer to the puller, or one space farther from the pusher) anywhere adjacent to the target of the forced move, then they have to move into it.

But sometimes there is an option where the target can choose to be pushed/pulled for the first move of a 2+ forced move, which doesn't have any further possible movement for the remaining forced move. For instance, the non-brute character (lower left) could choose to get pushed back and to the left (zapruder film) for the first move, but then there would be no further movement (where as if it chose to go back and to the right, it would then be pushed an additional hex to the right, unless the brute had already been pushed there)


+1 for being right
+1GG for zapruder reference.
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Jay Johnson
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there was a second wind demon on the grassy knoll
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Esther Pettigrew
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dlikos wrote:
In the situation below, the enemy gets push 2 on all adjacent opponents.

Do the characters get pushed orthogonally back 1 space restricted by the wall or 2 spaces a bit diagonally from the pusher?

Thanks.


So, if I'm understanding the info in this thread correctly, player on the right could choose to be pushed right and be blocked by the wall for the second push OR be pushed two hexes through the gap in obstacles.

The player on the left has a similar pair of options: pushed left and be blocked by the wall for the second push OR be pushed two hexes through the gap in obstacles.
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Ahmad Siddiqi
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JayJ79 wrote:
(where as if it chose to go back and to the right, it would then be pushed an additional hex to the right, unless the brute had already been pushed there)


Pretty sure pushes and pulls have to be in straight lines?
 
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Josh
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ahmadms wrote:
JayJ79 wrote:
(where as if it chose to go back and to the right, it would then be pushed an additional hex to the right, unless the brute had already been pushed there)


Pretty sure pushes and pulls have to be in straight lines?


They do not, you simply must end up further (in number of hexds) away, or closer (in case of a pull) after each hex of movement . It is also worth remembering thwt pushes and pulls count as flying movement, which was stuck in the end of flying movement of all places.
 
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Mauro Moura
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Shadrach wrote:
ahmadms wrote:
JayJ79 wrote:
(where as if it chose to go back and to the right, it would then be pushed an additional hex to the right, unless the brute had already been pushed there)


Pretty sure pushes and pulls have to be in straight lines?


They do not, you simply must end up gurther (in number of hexds) away, or closer (in case of a pull) it is also worth remembering thwt pushes and pulls count as flying movement, which was stuck in the end of flying movement of all places.


And this is why using hexes in these kinds of games is far superior to using squares. However push and pull don't count as flying movement, what is written on the flying section of the rulesbook is that flying monsters can be pulled or pushed over obstacles and other figures but cannot end the pull or push there.
 
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Trond Roaas
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Shadrach wrote:
It is also worth remembering thwt pushes and pulls count as flying movement, which was stuck in the end of flying movement of all places.

Pushes and pulls only count as flying if the pushed figure already has the flying trait.
However, forced movement like push and pull is not affected by difficult terrain (page 14).
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Trond Roaas
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DakonBlackblade wrote:
However push and pull don't count as flying movement, what is written on the flying section of the rulesbook is that flying monsters can be pulled or pushed over obstacles and other figures but cannot end the pull or push there.

Almost. The rules state that any push/pull on a flying figure works just like normal flying movement. The flying figure (both push/pull and normal movement) must end its movement on an unoccupied hex (no other figures), but can end its movement on an obstacle just fine.
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M.C.Crispy
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I think that it's worth pointing out that the recently updated FAQ now contains some clarification on Push/Pull that should resolve all the issues that the OP has. And dispel all the invented stuff that people have posted in reply to the OP.
 
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Mauro Moura
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mccrispy wrote:
I think that it's worth pointing out that the recently updated FAQ now contains some clarification on Push/Pull that should resolve all the issues that the OP has. And dispel all the invented stuff that people have posted in reply to the OP.


You do realise the FAQ is made based on issues that arrise and are resolved in this very forum right ? And the answer to the OP issue is only in te FAQ because he asked and got answered, said answer was then added to the FAQ.
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kevan sumner
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I would choose the push destination that I felt works best to the monster's advantage.
 
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metony mous
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dlikos wrote:



There are three directions leading away from the enemy, lets take scoundrel:
1 North-West into the wall
2 West, one hex and then the wall
3 South-West, two hexes

As I understand the rules, every push have to take you one hex further away, and if it options, the player decides the direction.

1 Could I choose to be pushed North-West into the wall, negating the push?
2 Could I choose to be pushed west, one hex end end at the wall?
3 Or do I have to choose South-West since it is a way that fulfills "push 2"?

I think I could choose 3 (fulfills "push 2") and 2 (because when I have been pushed one hex, there is not other hexes that is further away from the enemy that pushes).
I am unsure about 1, the North-West option, negating the push. Is there any ruling to this?
 
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Jay Johnson
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metonymo wrote:
1 Could I choose to be pushed North-West into the wall, negating the push?
2 Could I choose to be pushed west, one hex end end at the wall?
3 Or do I have to choose South-West since it is a way that fulfills "push 2"?

forced movement is determined one hex at a time.

You could not chose option 1, since there are other valid hexes in which to be pushed, so you're left with options 2 and 3.

If you choose option 2, you get pushed into the corner, and there are no valid hexes for the 2nd push hex, so that is where you stay (unless you're character's name is Baby, since "no one puts Baby in the corner").

If you choose option 3, you get pushed one hex toward the columns, and since there is a valid spot for the second hex of push, you then get pushed in between the columns and the wall
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Trond Roaas
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metonymo wrote:
I am unsure about 1, the North-West option, negating the push. Is there any ruling to this?

From the FAQ:
The FAQ wrote:
What if there are multiple blocked and/or unblocked paths?
If a figure is being pushed/pulled and there is an unblocked hex, it has to be used. If there are multiple unblocked hexes, the players decide. This is evaluated one hex at a time until the effect is fully resolved or there are no valid hexes for the figure to move into.

(Emphasis mine)
So - the first step will have to be west or southwest - players choose.
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M.C.Crispy
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DakonBlackblade wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
I think that it's worth pointing out that the recently updated FAQ now contains some clarification on Push/Pull that should resolve all the issues that the OP has. And dispel all the invented stuff that people have posted in reply to the OP.


You do realise the FAQ is made based on issues that arrise and are resolved in this very forum right ? And the answer to the OP issue is only in te FAQ because he asked and got answered, said answer was then added to the FAQ.
So why is there any continuation of the discussion? It's as though nobody realises that it got answered and added to the FAQ
 
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Mauro Moura
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mccrispy wrote:
DakonBlackblade wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
I think that it's worth pointing out that the recently updated FAQ now contains some clarification on Push/Pull that should resolve all the issues that the OP has. And dispel all the invented stuff that people have posted in reply to the OP.


You do realise the FAQ is made based on issues that arrise and are resolved in this very forum right ? And the answer to the OP issue is only in te FAQ because he asked and got answered, said answer was then added to the FAQ.
So why is there any continuation of the discussion? It's as though nobody realises that it got answered and added to the FAQ


Because ppl still want to debate it, some still need further clarification, and thats the point of having a forum in the first place ?
 
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M.C.Crispy
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DakonBlackblade wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
DakonBlackblade wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
I think that it's worth pointing out that the recently updated FAQ now contains some clarification on Push/Pull that should resolve all the issues that the OP has. And dispel all the invented stuff that people have posted in reply to the OP.


You do realise the FAQ is made based on issues that arrise and are resolved in this very forum right ? And the answer to the OP issue is only in te FAQ because he asked and got answered, said answer was then added to the FAQ.
So why is there any continuation of the discussion? It's as though nobody realises that it got answered and added to the FAQ


Because ppl still want to debate it, some still need further clarification, and thats the point of having a forum in the first place ?
And yet... there are incorrect assertions about how it works and zero references to the FAQ until my post. My post was an attempt to gently push people toward actual reference rules/rulings before making statements that are unhelpful or just rehash the same old points without adding anything new.
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