Andy Beaton
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If they snub Trump like that, I will retract every disparaging thing I ever said about having a monarchy.
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Well, Trump has had 11 months to get off his ass and fly across the pond to grab the Queen by the ---- er, meet and greet the Queen. If the wedding happens first, whose fault is that?
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For any foreigners who may be unaware, let's be generous and say that the Sun is not always a reliable news source.

That said, there's strong public support for Trump's planned state visit next year to be cancelled, and he'll face massive protests if he does turn up.
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theapostlegreen wrote:
Well, Trump has had 11 months to get off his ass and fly across the pond to grab the Queen by the ---- er, meet and greet the Queen. If the wedding happens first, whose fault is that?


Trump wants to come but wants May to promise a welcoming crowd. May still has enough of a grip on reality to realize that is NOT what would greet Trump. Hence, no orange fascist visit to the home of Nigel Farage yet.
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Xander Fulton
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Kumitedad wrote:
The UK is finding out the "joys" of having to dealing with an unstable lying bigot in the office of POTUS. The lengths to which The Donald needs to be appeased is positively degrading.


It's possible that Prince Harry and Meghan Markle have some prior connection to the Obamas outside of their position as ex-first-family. I don't know, maybe they do.

If they don't, though (which feels more likely)...I mean, it's hardly a Trump thing, alone, that would see that as a snub. If during Obama's years in office, a royal wedding occurred that saw invitations to the Bush family as an ex-first-family, but not to the Obama family...people would certainly have complained about that, too.

Inviting former members of a foreign government, and excluding current members of that government, to your government-adjacent event...is going to be perceived as an intentional insult, regardless of who is in office. (Although, as noted, if they had some other connection to the Obama family that would explain the invitation other than ONLY 'former members of a government we like more than the current members' - that would explain it just fine)

IE., I don't think this is a 'ZOMG, Trump is SO thin-skinned to be insulted by this' kind of thing. It would be an actually-insulting thing. Easy to understand, of course, but nevertheless...
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https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/874084/Prince-Harry-Meg...

Again not the most reliable source, but they've clearly met a few times at the very least.
 
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Newsweek (traditionally reliable) confirms:

http://www.newsweek.com/meghan-markle-prince-harry-wedding-o...

One solution might be for the Obamas to vacation in Europe, and "Oh, since you're here already...."
 
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Tall_Walt wrote:
Newsweek (traditionally reliable) confirms:


Everything just links back to that Sun story, though.
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Idiotic for UK to not show its best courtesy to Trump in hopes of a bilateral free trade deal that would greatly alleviate their current troubles with the EU. He is extremely pliable and usually comes away sounding like whoever he last talked to, but they won't even try, won't even extend normal diplomatic courtesy because they're so far up their own asses.
 
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Kiraboshi wrote:
Idiotic for UK to not show its best courtesy to Trump in hopes of a bilateral free trade deal that would greatly alleviate their current troubles with the EU. He is extremely pliable and usually comes away sounding like whoever he last talked to, but they won't even try, won't even extend normal diplomatic courtesy because they're so far up their own asses.

Pretty insulting post. The UK government is actually trying very hard. That's the point of the story. May invited Trump over after all. Individuals like me who believe our future is with Europe aren't too bothered. Experience on things like the Scottish government dealing with Trump over golf courses show he lies and breaks his word at will. He also breaks laws when he thinks he can get away with it. I don't think a trade deal under those circumstances is worth much.
Besides which if he is so thin skinned that protesting him if he comes affects inter-government deals there won't be many places in the West he can visit. He should stay out of a lot of the USA as well.
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It's a Sun story! That means it was made up by a hungover hack whose soul has been leeched out of them and now sits in a bottle of formaldehyde in their desk drawer.
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XanderF wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
The UK is finding out the "joys" of having to dealing with an unstable lying bigot in the office of POTUS. The lengths to which The Donald needs to be appeased is positively degrading.


It's possible that Prince Harry and Meghan Markle have some prior connection to the Obamas outside of their position as ex-first-family. I don't know, maybe they do.

If they don't, though (which feels more likely)...I mean, it's hardly a Trump thing, alone, that would see that as a snub. If during Obama's years in office, a royal wedding occurred that saw invitations to the Bush family as an ex-first-family, but not to the Obama family...people would certainly have complained about that, too.

Inviting former members of a foreign government, and excluding current members of that government, to your government-adjacent event...is going to be perceived as an intentional insult, regardless of who is in office. (Although, as noted, if they had some other connection to the Obama family that would explain the invitation other than ONLY 'former members of a government we like more than the current members' - that would explain it just fine)

IE., I don't think this is a 'ZOMG, Trump is SO thin-skinned to be insulted by this' kind of thing. It would be an actually-insulting thing. Easy to understand, of course, but nevertheless...


Wow- sorry I don't see it that way at all. If President Bush were invited to a social affair and President Obama was not, I'd assume Mr. Obama would have handled it gracefully.

It's a social affair- not government business.

---

And more to the point, Mr. Trump has given praise to people who he within hours was attacking viciously who within days he was praising.

Mr. Trump's world is simple. Do what he wants and he's happy even if he hated you the day before. Do something he doesn't like and he hates you, even if you killed yourself for him before.

He *has* *no* loyalty. There is *no* reward for mollifying him.

He can only get mad at you once and he never pays his debts. So better to leave him mad and then do something to make him instantly nice when you need him to be. But understand it won't last. He's a bully.

Cowards die a thousand times. Knuckling under to Mr. Trump just means you'll be knuckling under to him more than you needed to.
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I suspect it is the (Foreign Office) Civil service that is saying "don't invite Obama" rather than the Government. I doubt if Boris (who is reputed to like Trump … and is a lot like him) cares much and May might possibly even support an invite.
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XanderF wrote:
It's possible that Prince Harry and Meghan Markle have some prior connection to the Obamas outside of their position as ex-first-family. I do't know, maybe they do.


From an outsiders prospective, Harry and Obama seem to have a friendly relationship (if not a friendship). Harry did that interview with Obama that was recently released and the Obamas supported Harry and Williams Invictus Games for Wounded Veterans. There's been numerous jokes about Harry and Obama's bromance.
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Fuck it, while they're at it they should invite The Bushes, Clintons and Carters, shit even Bush the elder and stiff Cheetos Jesus.
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Kiraboshi wrote:
Idiotic for UK to not show its best courtesy to Trump in hopes of a bilateral free trade deal that would greatly alleviate their current troubles with the EU. He is extremely pliable and usually comes away sounding like whoever he last talked to, but they won't even try, won't even extend normal diplomatic courtesy because they're so far up their own asses.


Are you for real? the UK has has sent an invitation for a visit, that is "normal diplomatic courtesy"

The more I see of your comments here on BGG the more I think you are just trying to get a bite, either that or you have no idea of how much you come across as insulting.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/prince-harry-r...
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Dispaminite wrote:
XanderF wrote:
It's possible that Prince Harry and Meghan Markle have some prior connection to the Obamas outside of their position as ex-first-family. I do't know, maybe they do.


From an outsiders prospective, Harry and Obama seem to have a friendly relationship (if not a friendship). Harry did that interview with Obama that was recently released and the Obamas supported Harry and Williams Invictus Games for Wounded Veterans. There's been numerous jokes about Harry and Obama's bromance.


Yup, seeing a bit of that popping up in the news, now. That does seem to provide a convincing alternative explanation.
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XanderF wrote:
Dispaminite wrote:
XanderF wrote:
It's possible that Prince Harry and Meghan Markle have some prior connection to the Obamas outside of their position as ex-first-family. I do't know, maybe they do.


From an outsiders prospective, Harry and Obama seem to have a friendly relationship (if not a friendship). Harry did that interview with Obama that was recently released and the Obamas supported Harry and Williams Invictus Games for Wounded Veterans. There's been numerous jokes about Harry and Obama's bromance.


Yup, seeing a bit of that popping up in the news, now. That does seem to provide a convincing alternative explanation.


Friendly enough that Obama gave his first post-presidency interview to Harry.

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poshniallo wrote:
It's a Sun story! That means it was made up by a hungover hack whose soul has been leeched out of them and now sits in a bottle of formaldehyde in their desk drawer.


you mean an intern at the daily mail who failed (job lift stories from the internet)
 
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maxo-texas wrote:
It's a social affair- not government business.


A royal wedding is government business. They will be inviting heads of state from all over the world for no other reason than they are heads of state. Failing to invite the President of the USA would be an enormous diplomatic snub.

Whether or not one likes the man in the office, sometimes it is strictly about the office. This is one of those times. Unless the President gives the UK government a very specific reason not to invite him (insulting the queen, creating a diplomatic flap with the UK), he should be invited unless they aren't inviting other heads of state. I'll be shocked if the latter is true.
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perfalbion wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
It's a social affair- not government business.


A royal wedding is government business. They will be inviting heads of state from all over the world for no other reason than they are heads of state. Failing to invite the President of the USA would be an enormous diplomatic snub.

Whether or not one likes the man in the office, sometimes it is strictly about the office. This is one of those times. Unless the President gives the UK government a very specific reason not to invite him (insulting the queen, creating a diplomatic flap with the UK), he should be invited unless they aren't inviting other heads of state. I'll be shocked if the latter is true.



Of course a royal wedding is state business.

...

Just waiting for your semi-automatic gainsaying of my position.

...

I can wait while you put that chip down somewhere.

 
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Kumitedad wrote:
perfalbion wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
It's a social affair- not government business.


A royal wedding is government business. They will be inviting heads of state from all over the world for no other reason than they are heads of state. Failing to invite the President of the USA would be an enormous diplomatic snub.

Whether or not one likes the man in the office, sometimes it is strictly about the office. This is one of those times. Unless the President gives the UK government a very specific reason not to invite him (insulting the queen, creating a diplomatic flap with the UK), he should be invited unless they aren't inviting other heads of state. I'll be shocked if the latter is true.


In a more of a grey area here however. Since Harry is not the "heir" but the "spare" this seems to be not a state wedding, and the Government has but a consultive role in it. But now that this story has broken this changes the reality. If Obama is not invited the tendency might be to believe that the government actually did have something to do with that snub, rightly or wrongly. Which will make May even worse (if that is possible). And I seriously doubt The Donald will be invited at all.

So this has the potential of being a rather interesting diplomatic dust up

How whimsical


Additionally, for the Heir's (Williams) wedding, the sitting president, Obama, was not invited. There's precedent for not inviting the sitting president.
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Kumitedad wrote:
perfalbion wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
It's a social affair- not government business.


A royal wedding is government business. They will be inviting heads of state from all over the world for no other reason than they are heads of state. Failing to invite the President of the USA would be an enormous diplomatic snub.

Whether or not one likes the man in the office, sometimes it is strictly about the office. This is one of those times. Unless the President gives the UK government a very specific reason not to invite him (insulting the queen, creating a diplomatic flap with the UK), he should be invited unless they aren't inviting other heads of state. I'll be shocked if the latter is true.


In a more of a grey area here however. Since Harry is not the "heir" but the "spare" [...]

Spare #5 or thereabouts, IIRC. Does that make him a loser in Trump terms?
 
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Kumitedad wrote:
Since Harry is not the "heir" but the "spare"
He's fifth in line and doesn't want the job, in part because he's not wanted for it.

HM The Queen and the major Royals don't do jailbirds, bozos, dumbos, fallen women, or anyone controversial or questionable, unless they are obliged to in their role as politicians. Diana screwed up here. Note how Scarlett Johansson & Natalie Portman had a permanent ticket to all official events in London, whereas Lindsay Lohan was never invited.

Michelle Obama and The Queen are friendly.
 
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aforandy wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
Since Harry is not the "heir" but the "spare"
He's fifth in line


Three of the people in line before him are expected to be King in turn.

I would guess that's a first ever: a son, grandson and great-grandson of the monarch in the line of succession all alive.

The real spare is William's second. Whose name I do not recall. Or the first come to that.
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