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Talisman (Revised 4th Edition)» Forums » Variants

Subject: Rethinking Armor rss

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Klaus Gunther Herzog
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In the base game, we have the Helmet, the Shield, and full Armor, with various degrees of protection. And according to the official rules, you can only use ONE if these. Pick the best, and turn the others into gold at the Alchemist, or drop them for another character to use.

I'm wondering... WHY?

Why not let a character use ALL THREE, or any combo of two, if he or she chooses? Roll for each piece of equiipment separately to see if it protects.

Is this too much of an advantage? To much protection? I don't think so... the penalty is that you're now using up three of your four object slots, and you can only carry ONE more thing, unless you have a mule.
 
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Björn Harzer
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hmmm... is it just "one of each"? and not "one of them all"?
 
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Klaus Gunther Herzog
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Beejer2000 wrote:
hmmm... is it just "one of each"? and not "one of them all"?


In standard rules you can have only one piece of protective equipment. So if you're using a shield for example, you cannot also use a helmet. That's also how it works in the Android app version.

Doesn't really make a lot of THEMATIC sense, either. Why shouldn't one be able to wear a helmet and hold a shield at the same time?
 
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Nick Hayes
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PlowStr8 wrote:
Beejer2000 wrote:
hmmm... is it just "one of each"? and not "one of them all"?


In standard rules you can have only one piece of protective equipment. So if you're using a shield for example, you cannot also use a helmet. That's also how it works in the Android app version.

Doesn't really make a lot of THEMATIC sense, either. Why shouldn't one be able to wear a helmet and hold a shield at the same time?


I was think in the iOS version that you could have multiple armors. I’m pretty sure you could have, at one time, but maybe they changed it.
 
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Klaus Gunther Herzog
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Halborn wrote:
PlowStr8 wrote:
Beejer2000 wrote:
hmmm... is it just "one of each"? and not "one of them all"?


In standard rules you can have only one piece of protective equipment. So if you're using a shield for example, you cannot also use a helmet. That's also how it works in the Android app version.

Doesn't really make a lot of THEMATIC sense, either. Why shouldn't one be able to wear a helmet and hold a shield at the same time?


I was think in the iOS version that you could have multiple armors. I’m pretty sure you could have, at one time, but maybe they changed it.


You could legally CARRY more than one piece of protective equipment (presumably to either alchemize, or to keep someone else from picking it up). But you only get ONE roll for defense if you are about to lose a life in combat.
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Gabe Hawkins
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PlowStr8 wrote:
In the base game, we have the Helmet, the Shield, and full Armor, with various degrees of protection. And according to the official rules, you can only use ONE if these. Pick the best, and turn the others into gold at the Alchemist, or drop them for another character to use.

I'm wondering... WHY?

Why not let a character use ALL THREE, or any combo of two, if he or she chooses? Roll for each piece of equiipment separately to see if it protects.

Is this too much of an advantage? To much protection? I don't think so... the penalty is that you're now using up three of your four object slots, and you can only carry ONE more thing, unless you have a mule.


I've always found this to be a strange rule. I understand why it's in place, I suppose, but I've always erred on the side of house rules in this case. You can't double up on shields, for instance, but if you have a helmet and a shield, it's reasonable to be able to use them both, as one would in real life. That tends to work well for us, and it adds to the hilarity when someone can't be saved by their protective equipment despite having multiple tries.
 
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Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
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I'd be OK with a 'combined' ruling, but would rather convert it into a single die roll instead of multiple.

Definitely no duplicate objects allowed. If you want this to be 'type of Object' instead of 'exact duplicate', then be my guest (type of object as in 'no two head coverings').

So Armour on it's own works on a 4, 5, or 6, but an Armour+Shield would work on a 3, 4, 5, or 6.
Shield+Helmet would work on a 4, 5, or 6.
Etc...
But rolling a 1 is always a fail, regardless of armor-stacking.
 
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marcin marcinek
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grarrrg wrote:
I'd be OK with a 'combined' ruling, but would rather convert it into a single die roll instead of multiple.

Definitely no duplicate objects allowed. If you want this to be 'type of Object' instead of 'exact duplicate', then be my guest (type of object as in 'no two head coverings').

So Armour on it's own works on a 4, 5, or 6, but an Armour+Shield would work on a 3, 4, 5, or 6.
Shield+Helmet would work on a 4, 5, or 6.
Etc...
But rolling a 1 is always a fail, regardless of armor-stacking.
Seems to complex for what it offers. Just allow players to use a piece of armour without rolling but you have to discard it after use.
 
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Klaus Gunther Herzog
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grarrrg wrote:
I'd be OK with a 'combined' ruling, but would rather convert it into a single die roll instead of multiple.

Definitely no duplicate objects allowed. If you want this to be 'type of Object' instead of 'exact duplicate', then be my guest (type of object as in 'no two head coverings').

So Armour on it's own works on a 4, 5, or 6, but an Armour+Shield would work on a 3, 4, 5, or 6.
Shield+Helmet would work on a 4, 5, or 6.
Etc...
But rolling a 1 is always a fail, regardless of armor-stacking.


Yeah I thought of going the 1-die 1-rolle route... but that diminishes combos, as the level of protections are 1/6, 2/6, and 3/6. So Armor + Shield should give you 5/6, and of course a helmet would make it 6/6, and full protection with no chance of a hit getting through would not only be powerful, but kind of boring.

One way to speed it up would be to have three different colored dice specifically for armor rolls (or heck, even custom Chessex dice). Just roll for the equipment you have, all at once.
 
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Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
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PlowStr8 wrote:
Yeah I thought of going the 1-die 1-rolle route... but that diminishes combos, as the level of protections are 1/6, 2/6, and 3/6. So Armor + Shield should give you 5/6, and of course a helmet would make it 6/6, and full protection with no chance of a hit getting through would not only be powerful, but kind of boring.

You'll note my examples only give a "+1" per extra armor, regardless of type.
And "1 always fails" is there too.

I though about making it more complicated, with secondary armor being worth 'points', and you 'buy' your way down, with '2 and up' being more expensive than '3 and up'.
But...yeah, straight up "one better for each" seemed more useful.
 
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Klaus Gunther Herzog
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grarrrg wrote:
PlowStr8 wrote:
Yeah I thought of going the 1-die 1-rolle route... but that diminishes combos, as the level of protections are 1/6, 2/6, and 3/6. So Armor + Shield should give you 5/6, and of course a helmet would make it 6/6, and full protection with no chance of a hit getting through would not only be powerful, but kind of boring.

You'll note my examples only give a "+1" per extra armor, regardless of type.
And "1 always fails" is there too.

I though about making it more complicated, with secondary armor being worth 'points', and you 'buy' your way down, with '2 and up' being more expensive than '3 and up'.
But...yeah, straight up "one better for each" seemed more useful.


But then doesn't your method artificially inflate the value of a helmet, which with the existing rules is only half as effective as a shield (and half the price)?
 
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Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
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PlowStr8 wrote:
But then doesn't your method artificially inflate the value of a helmet, which with the existing rules is only half as effective as a shield (and half the price)?


Eh.
Trying to toe the line between "bonuses are actually useful", and "system is too complicated to be worth it".
Having each secondary armor be worth +1 is fairly simple and still provides a decent benefit.
The more complicated "points" system I was messing around with accounted for 'better/worse' secondary armor (as well as "loss is now a stand-off" armor as well). But I decided it wasn't worth the memory/calculation issues to be worth it.

Simple = Better
 
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