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Subject: Brown California rss

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Walt
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I'm not talking about the fires, but the governor. I came across an interesting interview with him:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-governor-whos-castigating-t...

Some quotes (transcript corrected in a few places to match the video):

Bill Whitaker: "Are you fearful?" [of climate change]

Governor Jerry Brown: "Oh yeah, you should--anyone who isn't is not looking at the facts. I don't think President Trump has a fear of the Lord, the fear of the wrath of God, which leads one to more humility. And this is such a reckless disregard for the truth and for the existential consequences that can be unleashed."

Bill Whitaker: "If he sounds like a Jesuit seminarian, it's because he was one, years ago."

___

Bill Whitaker: "What can you, the governor of one state in the United States, do to fill in the void?" [in climate change policy]

Governor Jerry Brown: "As governor of California we have a cap and trade system which is a very efficient way of reducing greenhouse gases. We have a zero-emission vehicle mandate. We have efficiency standards for our buildings, for our appliances. So California is showing that dealing with climate is good for the economy, not bad."

Bill Whitaker: "California is booming. Under Brown, it has grown from the 9th largest economy in the world to the 6th. It's now bigger than France with a budget surplus of more than $7 billion.

"When you first came into office this time. California faced more than $50 billion in debt and deficits. There were headlines that California was going to be the first 'failed state.'"

Governor Jerry Brown: "The fact is we cut the budget, we raised taxes and the economy roared back.
...
"You gotta pay some taxes. You have to invest. We need to invest in the technology of tomorrow or somebody else will. And that somebody is China, India and other countries. You're not gonna poor mouth yourself to the future and roads cost money, that's called taxes. R&D cost money, colleges cost money -- schools, childcare, all of that. We're a rich country and we can handle it."

___

Governor Jerry Brown: "I'd say we're more in tune with the future than many parts of the rest of the country.
...
"There's more confidence here; there's less fear. People are looking to the future. They're not scared, they're not going inward, they're not scapegoating, they're not blaming Mexican immigrants. They're not blaming the stranger. Just the opposite. It's is a place that's alive. It's dynamic. It's a culture that's on the move, not pulling up the drawbridge out of fear and and economic insecurity."
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Steve Cates
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Meanwhile, a full third of people on welfare live in California with only 1/6th of the US Population.

There are two Californias, the narrow strip on the coast that can afford crazy policies like raising taxes on every pet thing and the rest of the working class people in the interior that have seen their transportation, energy, healthcare, water, and more costs skyrocket.
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ironcates wrote:
Meanwhile, a full third of people on welfare live in California with only 1/6th of the US Population.

I presume you have some solid, non-Breitbart, non-Info Wars proof of this ... interesting statistic?
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Bojan Ramadanovic
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ironcates wrote:
Meanwhile, a full third of people on welfare live in California with only 1/6th of the US Population.

There are two Californias, the narrow strip on the coast that can afford crazy policies like raising taxes on every pet thing and the rest of the working class people in the interior that have seen their transportation, energy, healthcare, water, and more costs skyrocket.


If that is the case, it is even more miraculous how those overtaxed crazy liberals in the tiny coastal strip manage to run world's sixth greatest economy - unless you suggest that the engine of California's economic growth is in its hinterland?
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wifwendell wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Meanwhile, a full third of people on welfare live in California with only 1/6th of the US Population.

I presume you have some solid, non-Breitbart, non-Info Wars proof of this ... interesting statistic?

It's true, it's just far more complex.
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Mac Mcleod
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ironcates wrote:
Meanwhile, a full third of people on welfare live in California with only 1/6th of the US Population.

There are two Californias, the narrow strip on the coast that can afford crazy policies like raising taxes on every pet thing and the rest of the working class people in the interior that have seen their transportation, energy, healthcare, water, and more costs skyrocket.


Okay... not sure if it is true but let's grant that.

A third of people on welfare in the entire country live in california.

And its economy has grown- exceeding that of entire nations with higher populations (over 25 million higher for France).

Jeez man... where do I sign up Texas for this welfare stuff? Who knows why but apparently it doesn't stop the economy from growing rapidly resulting in lots of money for everyone!
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Guys, guys;

Itoncates' obvious point is that if one wants to build the economy one has to give money back to the poorest in the population. They won't be able to save it much and so it will mostly go straight back into the economy fueling growth. My wife says the same thing, and it makes sense to me.
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ironcates wrote:
Meanwhile, a full third of people on welfare live in California with only 1/6th of the US Population.


I'm kind of curious what California is doing here. The total only amounts to $45 per month per person on welfare. A lot of the beneficiaries must only be receiving benefits for a very short period of time as $45 isn't enough to do much with.

If you assume the average person only collects the benefits for 3 months rather than 12 months, then the amount would jump to $180 per month for 3 months, which looks more like what a real welfare benefit would be as $180 could make a real difference to a family living on the edge.

Anyway, my point is, there is a lot more to the story than the headline. It might sound like a great headline, but when you look at the actual numbers it isn't a lot of money. Probably it is mostly a short term benefit for people between jobs or some such. It could also just be statistical nonsense due to how California tracks who is on welfare vs. other states.
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Also, California has had a balanced budget (some surpluses, some defitits) for the last few years. They are projecting a $2.8 billion surplus next year as well. Much like Germany has a regular budget surplus while maintaining a strong economy despite being an "evil" socialist state where all the lazy bums just live off the government instead of working.
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Cris Whetstone
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The fun thing about our state is that all the rightie radio talk show types have been telling us for decades that businesses are leaving California in droves because of the high taxes. This will of course lead to the state collapsing.

This is entirely bollocks of course to anyone that can open their eyes or reads any sort of business news but why let reality get in the way of dogma?
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Mac Mcleod
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sfox wrote:
Also, California has had a balanced budget (some surpluses, some defitits) for the last few years. They are projecting a $2.8 billion surplus next year as well. Much like Germany has a regular budget surplus while maintaining a strong economy despite being an "evil" socialist state where all the lazy bums just live off the government instead of working.


No.. no!

The answer is to gut taxes to nothing, gut public services, and cut funding to schools.

You know... like Kansas.
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damiangerous wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Meanwhile, a full third of people on welfare live in California with only 1/6th of the US Population.

I presume you have some solid, non-Breitbart, non-Info Wars proof of this ... interesting statistic?

It's true, it's just far more complex.


from the link wrote:
One major — and cash consuming — difference is California refuses to push out children even if the parents fail to fulfill requirements.

We will not be party to devastating children and families. Period. It’s not why we came here. It’s not what we believe in,” said Senate President Pro Tempore Darrell Steinberg, D-Sacramento, when then-Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican, moved to erase all state spending on CalWORKS in May 2010.

Steinberg has echoed those same sentiments when dealing with Brown, a fellow Democrat, who initially wanted lawmakers to pare welfare even more in the current budget.

CalWORKS’ Bland said historically the state has been committed to a “safety net for children of parents who either cannot or will not help themselves.”

Caroline Danielson, a policy analyst who tracks welfare issues for the nonpartisan Public Policy Institute of California, said the unconditional support for children is “a pretty rare policy in the country as a whole.”

According to Schott, with the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, most states issue what’s called “full family” sanctions that automatically cut off aid to children if the parents lose eligibility. Other states offer second chances to the parent.

California is sticking with the kids and other states are walking away from them,” Schott said.
 
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bramadan wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Meanwhile, a full third of people on welfare live in California with only 1/6th of the US Population.

There are two Californias, the narrow strip on the coast that can afford crazy policies like raising taxes on every pet thing and the rest of the working class people in the interior that have seen their transportation, energy, healthcare, water, and more costs skyrocket.


If that is the case, it is even more miraculous how those overtaxed crazy liberals in the tiny coastal strip manage to run world's sixth greatest economy - unless you suggest that the engine of California's economic growth is in its hinterland?
Well that's true Silcon Valley and Hollywood are money makers but the Central Valley is probably the most fertile ag in the world. The enviromentalist would rather send the water to the ocean that to be used to grow food that feeds the nations and have a thriving economy in the center of the state. The per capita income in Kings county is 16,000 while the per capita income in Palo Alto is 160,000.

It's a strange problem that all liberals (both classic and progressive) should really get educated on. Here's Victor Davis Hanson describing the problem he's a PhD classicist that teaches at Stanford but grew up in Selma about 30 miles North of me.
 
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wifwendell wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Meanwhile, a full third of people on welfare live in California with only 1/6th of the US Population.

I presume you have some solid, non-Breitbart, non-Info Wars proof of this ... interesting statistic?


It happens to be true (you can find it discussed by lots of outlets). Here's the problem - the number includes recipient of state benefits as well as federal. So who the hell cares if California wants to fund benefits for more of their population (a huge number of which are children)? The money doesn't come out of the federal budget and the state can scale it back if desired. In fact, they passed legislation to start doing just that.

So it's true but it's not. Truthiness for the win!
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ironcates wrote:
bramadan wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Meanwhile, a full third of people on welfare live in California with only 1/6th of the US Population.

There are two Californias, the narrow strip on the coast that can afford crazy policies like raising taxes on every pet thing and the rest of the working class people in the interior that have seen their transportation, energy, healthcare, water, and more costs skyrocket.


If that is the case, it is even more miraculous how those overtaxed crazy liberals in the tiny coastal strip manage to run world's sixth greatest economy - unless you suggest that the engine of California's economic growth is in its hinterland?
Well that's true Silcon Valley and Hollywood are money makers but the Central Valley is probably the most fertile ag in the world. The enviromentalist would rather send the water to the ocean that to be used to grow food that feeds the nations and have a thriving economy in the center of the state. The per capita income in Kings county is 16,000 while the per capita income in Palo Alto is 160,000.


I assume you mean rather than drying up rivers and killing off all the unique species and ecosystems unique to California so that large scale farming can continue with it's endemic income inequalities, shipping large portions of it's crops overseas California is trying to find a balance with the water needs of all of it's population in an increasingly fresh water scarce environment.
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Steve Cates
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I guess income inequality is cool if it's in a blue state.
 
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ironcates wrote:
I guess income inequality is cool if it's in a blue state.


I looked through this whole thread and didn't see one person saying they thought it was. Are you saying this because you think it is or because you're setting up a strawman instead of addressing the points others are making?
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Cris Whetstone
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ironcates wrote:
I guess income inequality is cool if it's in a blue state.


No one would say that. You seem to think the only inequality exists between the coast and the interior. You shouldn't have to drive more than five miles in 90% of this state to figure out that is simply not true.

There is extraordinary income inequality in the big cities. There is also huge income inequality in the agricultural interior.

People like to think agricultural areas are like the small farm towns we've romanticized from our past. Those mostly do not exist anymore. I just did a road trip a couple weeks back from SoCal to Sonoma and back. I spent a lot of time in agricultural areas. The farms and land holdings are massive with smaller suburban cities sprinkled every couple dozen miles. I'm betting a lot of the land owners do not spend much time in those areas.


--

On that note, does anyone know where all the retail workers live that work at that suddenly massive "outlet" mall in Tejon off the 5? That thing seems like it sprang out of nowhere and is essentially in nowhere in terms of population centers. But it's BIG and must need thousands of employees.
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ironcates wrote:
I guess income inequality is cool if it's in a blue state.


Wow. That was really impressive distance, even for a leap of logic.
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ironcates wrote:
I guess income inequality is cool if it's in a blue state.


I am a classic liberal, income inequality does not bother me particularly in any state as long as it does not indicate political cronyism or rampant (absolute) poverty.

Agriculture is a relative economic dead-end. So many jurisdictions subsidize their agriculture that trying to make agriculture an economic engine of anything is a mug's game. Central Valley may be as fertile as any place - but it is trivially obvious that agriculture is not, has not been for a while and is likely never again to be California's comparative advantage.

Considering that in the light of the fact that the agriculture is an inherently rather negative-externality activity (pollution, water usage etc...) I can see how California would not be particularly eager to make life easy on the farmers.

This is not to say I think California is a picture of a perfect governance - but from where I stand, results seem to indicate it is doing things better than either Europe or most of the rest of the USA.
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perfalbion wrote:
ironcates wrote:
I guess income inequality is cool if it's in a blue state.


Wow. That was really impressive distance, even for a leap of logic.


You made the assumption of 'logic.'
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WetRock wrote:
ironcates wrote:
I guess income inequality is cool if it's in a blue state.


No one would say that. You seem to think the only inequality exists between the coast and the interior. You shouldn't have to drive more than five miles in 90% of this state to figure out that is simply not true.

There is extraordinary income inequality in the big cities. There is also huge income inequality in the agricultural interior.

People like to think agricultural areas are like the small farm towns we've romanticized from our past. Those mostly do not exist anymore. I just did a road trip a couple weeks back from SoCal to Sonoma and back. I spent a lot of time in agricultural areas. The farms and land holdings are massive with smaller suburban cities sprinkled every couple dozen miles. I'm betting a lot of the land owners do not spend much time in those areas.


--

On that note, does anyone know where all the retail workers live that work at that suddenly massive "outlet" mall in Tejon off the 5? That thing seems like it sprang out of nowhere and is essentially in nowhere in terms of population centers. But it's BIG and must need thousands of employees.

No one will say that but everyone's defending it in saying that the economic boom in California is an unmitigated boon from leftist policies. I'm calling BS.

*Tejon workers probably live in Bakersfield. Interstate 5 doesn't go through most of the communities that suffer from double digit unemployment you have to go down the 99 to see those. That forks off after you leave Tejon.
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bramadan wrote:
ironcates wrote:
I guess income inequality is cool if it's in a blue state.


I am a classic liberal, income inequality does not bother me particularly in any state as long as it does not indicate political cronyism or rampant (absolute) poverty.

Agriculture is a relative economic dead-end. So many jurisdictions subsidize their agriculture that trying to make agriculture an economic engine of anything is a mug's game. Central Valley may be as fertile as any place - but it is trivially obvious that agriculture is not, has not been for a while and is likely never again to be California's comparative advantage.

Considering that in the light of the fact that the agriculture is an inherently rather negative-externality activity (pollution, water usage etc...) I can see how California would not be particularly eager to make life easy on the farmers.

This is not to say I think California is a picture of a perfect governance - but from where I stand, results seem to indicate it is doing things better than either Europe or most of the rest of the USA.

I imagine you would appreciate the youtube video I posted earlier. Here's an article from that professor. I feel the video hits more points but, this is a taste as I know it's a commitment to watch a 30 min video.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450320/california-sece...
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Cris Whetstone
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ironcates wrote:
WetRock wrote:
ironcates wrote:
I guess income inequality is cool if it's in a blue state.


No one would say that. You seem to think the only inequality exists between the coast and the interior. You shouldn't have to drive more than five miles in 90% of this state to figure out that is simply not true.

There is extraordinary income inequality in the big cities. There is also huge income inequality in the agricultural interior.

People like to think agricultural areas are like the small farm towns we've romanticized from our past. Those mostly do not exist anymore. I just did a road trip a couple weeks back from SoCal to Sonoma and back. I spent a lot of time in agricultural areas. The farms and land holdings are massive with smaller suburban cities sprinkled every couple dozen miles. I'm betting a lot of the land owners do not spend much time in those areas.


--

On that note, does anyone know where all the retail workers live that work at that suddenly massive "outlet" mall in Tejon off the 5? That thing seems like it sprang out of nowhere and is essentially in nowhere in terms of population centers. But it's BIG and must need thousands of employees.

No one will say that but everyone's defending it in saying that the economic boom in California is an unmitigated boon from leftist policies. I'm calling BS.


I wouldn't say "economic boom". It's just hard to ignore the stark differences between California's economy and say that of Kansas. What better way to evaluate something than with actual evidence, right? If cutting taxes and government programs is the way to booming economies then how do you explain California and Kansas?

It is worth noting that California in many way represents the larger nation as a whole with coastal population centers that have better economies than the interior increasingly industrial farming areas. The same issues with economic disparities exist on a national level as do in California. I wonder if people in these 'red' areas complain about the more robust safety net California has than we do nationally when many of the people they know are surviving on it.

ironcates wrote:
*Tejon workers probably live in Bakersfield. Interstate 5 doesn't go through most of the communities that suffer from double digit unemployment you have to go down the 99 to see those. That forks off after you leave Tejon.


I realize there are cities not too far from that Tejon mall but it still seems like there distance and numbers issues which don't really fit. But we are in California and long commutes are common. I bet in addition to Bakersfield there is a not insignificant amount of people traveling over the Grapevine to work there.
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ironcates wrote:
No one will say that but everyone's defending it in saying that the economic boom in California is an unmitigated boon from leftist policies. I'm calling BS.


Nobody's said that in any way. I doubt anyone would be dumb enough to do so. What I think people would say is that California is making sure that the positive effects of its boom are shared with more of the population that it might otherwise be.
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