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Twilight Imperium (Fourth Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rules Clarifications? rss

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Joseph Oberlander
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We ran into several rules/play issues in the latest game we played:

1: Cruisers II - they have a carrying capacity of 1, and the tech listed underneath is "stasis capsules" - We had one player insist that because the tech says "capacity" it can be fighters as well. So we had ships with one capacity running around with fighters, where in previous versions, carrying capacity on larger ships aside from carriers and war suns was for troops only. 5 cruisers with a fighter onboard each seems broken compared to the old version's tech. ( Dreads could also carry fighters instead of troops now, too? )

2: Playing the Arborec, the rules were incredibly unclear as to how the mothership worked. One player was using "capacity" to move into a system, drop troops, and then instantly build a pile of ships in orbit. Or to move into a system to support other ships and build 4 fighters and a destroyer before combat started(large fleet supply). This is kind of related to issue #1. it basically turned the ship into a floating space dock that could build and deploy on the same turn.

3: Arborec 2 - using its troops to produce units. It says production 1 - and one Arborec pops out a carrier or dread without a dock, rinse, repeat. The entire game they built no docks and spent no tokens building at docks or their home world. Is it 1 production per ground unit or 1 total at that location? Ships as well or ground units only?

4: Playing 4 players, we ran into a situation where twice, building of the map under the advanced rules for placement of tiles, where we all ended up with a hand full of hazards and virtually no place to put any of them. The reason became clear in that in the previous game, empty space was not considered a red tile, and with the red tile and adjacent wormhole placement rule, players 2&3 were forced to always put planets in other places on the map once the other two players, with their double-placement put red tiles strategically on the board. The middle players, without a double-placement couldn't place any red tiles away from themselves and ended up with a handful of red tiles and half the planets.

The "snake" way of placing tiles needs to be fixed or open space needs to be changed to not be red. I ran this a couple more times to check and the same result happened - it was too easy for the middle players to be nerfed. Players 1&4 ended up with more planets and 2 and 3 with half as many and more red tiles near them. The outer ring was always full of hazards near the middle players.

It's a problem of geometry and math with 4 players and how the ring constructs itself - player 2 always ends up with the worst planets and hemmed in by obstructions.

5: PDS - We ran into a problem where one player put all of his PDS on one planet, saying that the rules don't state that there is a limit, unlike in 3rd edition. I can only imagine what would happen if you had 6 dps on Mecatol with deep space canons( PDS II)
 
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Steve Williams
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Oberlander wrote:
1: Cruisers II

Capacity is capacity. Yes they can carry fighters now. It's hardly broken, each fighter carried is a ground force left behind. And most objectives need boots on the ground.

Oberlander wrote:
2: Arborec Flagship

The timing is tricky here, note specifically the flagship's special production happens immediately after this ship's system is activated. Critically, that means it happens even before the movement step, so to take advantage of the Arobrec Flagship's production, it doesn't get to move anywhere that turn.

Oberlander wrote:
3: Arborec 2 Production

Each Infantry adds 1 production to the pool. If you have 5 of them, you can produce 5 units. Note also that unlike TI3, the production is pooled, so if you have 2 Arborec infantry, they can produce 2 more infantry for 1 resource.

Oberlander wrote:
4: Red-backed systems


Note that the back of the tile only matters for distributing initial hands. The rules for not placing adjacent only apply if they have a red border on the front, IE hazardous systems such as Asteroids, Nebula, etc. You can indeed place empty systems adjacent to any other system.

Oberlander wrote:
5: PDS


They are still limited to only 2 per planet. The rules reference number can be dug up if necessary.
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Matthias T
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1.
Quote:
16.1 A unit’s capacity value indicates the maximum combined
number of fighters and ground forces that it can transport.

So capacity counts for ground forces and fighters

2. Those are two different points. Arborec can move and build. So carrying ground forces and building with them in the new system (after combat) is fine.
The Flagship says:
Quote:
Duha Menaimon: After you activate this system, you may produce up to 5 units in this system.
so it can either build five units or move (without warfare) because you have to activate the system it currently sits in for it to build.

3.
Quote:
59.1 A unit’s “Production” ability on its faction sheet is always
followed by a value. This value is the maximum number of
units that this unit can produce.
- If the active player has multiple units in the active system
that have the “Production” ability, he can produce a
number of units up to the combined total of all of his units’
production values in that system.

So one production per unit, the sum of those for the system.

4. The setup rule says:
Quote:
Anomaly system
tiles cannot be placed next to one another unless there
is no other option.

Anomaly tiles are tiles with a red border not with a red back. Empty space can still be placed anywhere.

5. There is a limit of two PDS per planet:
Quote:
54.3 A PDS unit is placed on a planet. Each planet can have a
maximum of two PDS units
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Clayton Threadgill
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Oberlander wrote:
4: Playing 4 players, we ran into a situation where twice, building of the map under the advanced rules for placement of tiles, where we all ended up with a hand full of hazards and virtually no place to put any of them. The reason became clear in that in the previous game, empty space was not considered a red tile, and with the red tile and adjacent wormhole placement rule, players 2&3 were forced to always put planets in other places on the map once the other two players, with their double-placement put red tiles strategically on the board. The middle players, without a double-placement couldn't place any red tiles away from themselves and ended up with a handful of red tiles and half the planets.

The "snake" way of placing tiles needs to be fixed or open space needs to be changed to not be red. I ran this a couple more times to check and the same result happened - it was too easy for the middle players to be nerfed. Players 1&4 ended up with more planets and 2 and 3 with half as many and more red tiles near them. The outer ring was always full of hazards near the middle players.

It's a problem of geometry and math with 4 players and how the ring constructs itself - player 2 always ends up with the worst planets and hemmed in by obstructions.

As the others have pointed out, empty systems are not anomalies, so they can border any other system.

As for the geometry. Players 1 and 4 may get double placements, but in a 4 player game, players 2 and 3 each get 1st placement in the 2nd and 3rd ring, respectively. They will also each get to place a 2nd tile in the same ring before 2 of the other players get to place any, giving them a big strategic advantage in that ring, whether they want to protect their own home system with planets or surround an opponent with empties or reds.

Yes, for player 2 the advantage is given in the 2nd ring, and their placement in the outer ring is much worse. But this doesn't have to be a strategic disadvantage. The 2nd player has the best chance to set up a solid path to Mecatol Rex, and create a strong presence in the middle of the table. This is only a disadvantage if you refuse to use it to your advantage, and in that case it's not geometry that's the problem, it's the player.
 
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Rob Ben
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5. There is a limit of two PDS per planet:
Quote:
54.3 A PDS unit is placed on a planet. Each planet can have a
maximum of two PDS units


There is a agenda card to remove this limit.
 
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