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Guards of Atlantis: Tabletop MOBA» Forums » General

Subject: Co op vs AI? rss

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Ethan Soanka
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Greetings all!

I, for one,enjoy MOBAs on the PC and was very surprised to see this game pop up in my searchings. I was wondering though, would there be a way to incorporate an AI with varied difficulty level so that this game could be co op with even a group of people who wish to be on the same team?

I've played vs AI on some MOBAs and it is quite challenging on the harder difficulties, yet allows new/younger players to enjoy the game at easier settings.

How could this game do this and/or, a possibility of a co op vs AI expansion?

I humbly await anyones replies who may have more in depth knowledge of this game.

Thank you cool
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Gary Pope
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The only way I could imagine having an AI for this game is either having an app available, or making the AI players pick cards randomly but with cards with better stats on them to offset the randomness.

BUT this game could definitely be played as a 1 vs all. Just simply have the most experienced player control the entire other team.
 
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Arty N.
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The short answer is no, unfortunately.


I've toyed around with this idea back when the game was still in development and couldn't find a working solution to include A.I.

The game relies on hidden information and predicting your opponent's choices. That is simply not possible with any sort of randomly drawn card-driven mechanism.

That could theoretically be done with an App, but the amount of maintenance it would take to feed the data into the App (who played which card and who went where etc.) would drive the playing time through the roof.



 
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Ethan Soanka
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Aww dang. Ok then. Thank you for the input.
 
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Des T.
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WhiteTiger78 wrote:

I've played vs AI on some MOBAs and it is quite challenging on the harder difficulties, yet allows new/younger players to enjoy the game at easier settings.


DOTA AI was solid during laning but failed miserably once you had a few items under your belt.
In LOL, the AI is horribly predictable and can be massively exploited. It's only during special events (Doombots of Doom) that it's even remotely fair.
Which one were you thinking of? I'd love to play a moba with a good ai.


On topic: I could imagine an AI mode working, but it would probably require it's own expansion. The biggest problem is keeping it streamlined enough to retain GoA's elegant design.

I could see something along the lines of a special set of action cards that give the bot two or three options to use, with a ruleset designating which take precendence depending on situation and player decision as a tie-breaker.

Hm, maybe I'll meditate on it for a bit.
 
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Achim Zien
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I have been working on a solo AI. Here's a quote from the SGOYT (solitaire games on your table) geek list:

Quote:

Yeah, I know, I must be crazy. I really wanted to come up with a solo variant for this no-luck team-vs-team hand-management dudes-on-a-map multi-use-cards brawler.

I already learned this game with The Solo System to be able to teach it to others. So I figured it must be possible to build a challenging, non-adaptive AI that I could practice strategies against. Arty, the game's designer, already attempted this and in my hubris, I followed.

Obviously, there have to be some rules to govern what cards the AI plays, what action it selects and how it performs that action. Also, the AI will need some numerical advantage over the player (because of being dumb and not planning ahead) and I decided that the AI should not earn coins and instead automatically level up.

I already have a few of these systems in place and played three games with the AI. For simplicity's sake, Wasp (me) and Arien (AI) were battling each other. The crux of the AI is determining *how* it wants to perform each of its actions. E.g. for a typical move action, there are possibly dozens of valid locations and at least 5 that could make sense. How can you narrow the selection down with easy to perform heuristics, so that a "tie-breaker" card can quickly resolve any ambiguity between the "best" options.

Honestly, I am still unsure if I want to pursue this endeavor any further. It's hard to figure out a system that will narrow down AI decisions efficiently (to make the overhead small) and effectively (to make the AI interesting).

If anyone is interested in this, let me know.

thumbsup great game
thumbsdown no solo mode


I think I'll tinker with it if time permits and will post some details in a WIP thread. Not sure if it will work, though.
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Des T.
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PiHalbe wrote:
I have been working on a solo AI. Here's a quote from the SGOYT (solitaire games on your table) geek list:

I think I'll tinker with it if time permits and will post some details in a WIP thread. Not sure if it will work, though.


I've been tossing it around in my head, too. While I have a few ideas, I don't think a solid ai would be possible in a format smaller than an expansion. Otoh, it would also cover the solo rule set.
 
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