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Subject: Prodos / Archon / Companies House rss

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Some new backers may not be familiar with Archon's association with Prodos (they're the same staff), nor how Prodos treated backers of their first KS, the Aliens vs. Predator KS. Review these threads as part of your due diligence when backing a KS project.

Dakka: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/556916.page
Beasts of War: http://www.beastsofwar.com/groups/sci-fi-gamer-town-square/f...
BGG: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1581232/what-prodos
Prodos: http://prodosgames.com/community/alien-vs-predator/i-still-h...

Here's the KS Comments section from their previous RE-LOAD and Vanguard KS:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1915792245/re-load-by-a...
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1915792245/vanguard-of-...

Reviews of previously released games:
WarZone: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/138670/mutant-chronicles...
AvP: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/149896/alien-vs-predator...
LOAD: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/195547/load-league-ancie...
Vanguard: https://boardgamegeek.com/forum/2127832/vanguard-war/reviews

EDIT: Added link to previous Vanguard KS.
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Allan
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Re: Archon / Prodos
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Jason Daniels
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Re: Archon / Prodos
Cracks me up how many people in the comments are talking to the creators as @LBG because they don't know who they are. And Archon/Prodoss still call themselves Load Board Game, the fictitious entity created to hide the truth initially.

Fun stuff.
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Dan Angevine
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Re: Archon / Prodos
i remember the storm that was LOAD and the rules nonsense and such - but they've redeemed themselves mostly now haven't they? they delivered LOAD, reLOAD, and Vanguard of War pretty reliably and with the quality they showcased. Doesn't forgive their past but maybe makes a more stable looking future. i am not sold on the gameplay yet but the models do look good.
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RODRIGO MAIA MANIQUE
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Re: Archon / Prodos
I dropped my pledge today. I loved what I saw about the game, but after seeing a lot of complains it is difficult to continue.
I have AVP first and Second Edition. They did a good job with the second print.
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Re: Archon / Prodos
danimal13 wrote:
i remember the storm that was LOAD and the rules nonsense and such - but they've redeemed themselves mostly now haven't they? they delivered LOAD, reLOAD, and Vanguard of War pretty reliably and with the quality they showcased. Doesn't forgive their past but maybe makes a more stable looking future. i am not sold on the gameplay yet but the models do look good.


I was one of the people that voiced concern over LOAD. However, they did deliver the game. To me, it was not that good of a game, and I still think the emphasis on their production is in the miniatures, not in the quality of play.
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Re: Archon / Prodos
The Boilerman wrote:
Cracks me up how many people in the comments are talking to the creators as @LBG because they don't know who they are. And Archon/Prodoss still call themselves Load Board Game, the fictitious entity created to hide the truth initially.

Fun stuff.


slygess on the Beasts of War thread:
http://www.beastsofwar.com/groups/sci-fi-gamer-town-square/f...

"I looked in on the status of Load / Reload and it looks like the painted Load pledges are a problem (and are, it seems, 10 months late unless I misread). Reload was scheduled to start shipping in December and the last update regarding Reload was on the 15th saying that shipping would start next week (so – on time). Of course there is the caveat that something seems to have gone pear shaped with the pledge manager and there are a bunch of rightly worried people who dont know if they will even get anything because they either couldn’t finalise their PM or log in to verify everything is okay.. and it is a topic that Archon don’t seem to have addressed yet (or even acknowledged). Certainly worth keeping an eye on to see if they can avoid hitting the looming iceberg

EDIT: As far a "letting go", Prodos should first return AvP backers their money, as well as improve their customer service. Instead of issuing refunds, Prodos / Archon started their Space Crusaders line of miniatures, which also ran into customer service problems.

EDIT EDIT: Added some *current* customer service and shipping comments by backers in the Dakka thread (because they're having the same problems in their AvP shipping and fulfillment) : https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/7920/556916...
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Weresheep of Sin
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Re: Archon / Prodos
As far as I know, only the basic pledge (so without the stretch goals) of ReLoad is shipping. They do not really communicate well once they have the Kickstarter money.
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Re: Archon / Prodos
I've decided to drop my pledge after backing on Day 1. I had to ask myself am I backing this game for the game play or just the mini's? I haven't seen any game play and while it sounds alright I found myself thinking more and more about how cool the mini's were.
I can't justify it especially since I'm planning on backing Nemesis and maybe even Hate here within a month.
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Archon Studio
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Re: Archon / Prodos
LBG is the name of the account we are using on KS. KS is not letting to change this (creators account name cannot be changed).

Mr. Weresheep of Sin we are providing weekly updates in our KSs, even if we have not much to report, if you are not getting updates pleas check your spam inbox. Alternatively: Updates are posted every Friday (VoW or LOAD)after 16.00. Thanks

Regarding personal messaged via KS, its really not user friendly, as we are doing our best to filter backer messages from spam marketing/non-backers questions and other, however the best way to get in touch with us is via our contact form here: http://archon-studio.com/contact



Thanks.

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Re: Archon / Prodos
Woah.... I'd heard mention that there was a bit of a history there, but I didn't realize they're the AvP guys...

No gameplay video & one of the most legendarily screwed up KS projects in the board game world... I gotta reconsider whether I really want to risk 200$ here.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Re: Archon / Prodos
I'm risking the $200. I think there's enough "game" here that if the gameplay does suck, I can modify it and make it great.

-shnar
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Re: Archon / Prodos
shnar wrote:
I'm risking the $200. I think there's enough "game" here that if the gameplay does suck, I can modify it and make it great.

-shnar


I see your point, and my usual go-to is "well, I can always use the minis elsewhere and/or house rule the game", but I'm at the point where I have literally thousands of minis that I never actually get around to using and dozens of fully functional games that work great out of the box, so in my case at least, it's kind of deliberate self-delusion at this point.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Re: Archon / Prodos
Flamin_Jesus wrote:
shnar wrote:
I'm risking the $200. I think there's enough "game" here that if the gameplay does suck, I can modify it and make it great.

-shnar


I see your point, and my usual go-to is "well, I can always use the minis elsewhere and/or house rule the game", but I'm at the point where I have literally thousands of minis that I never actually get around to using and dozens of fully functional games that work great out of the box, so in my case at least, it's kind of deliberate self-delusion at this point.


Yeah, except this game seems to be about 80% already there. If I were to closer together an XCOM game from my current thousands of minis I own, it would take much longer to do than modify this one.

Based on Prodos track record though, the safer bet would be to get the bar game and leave it at that. Not sure we'll get all the extras...

-shnar
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Carlos D
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Re: Archon / Prodos
RodKabuto wrote:
I dropped my pledge today. I loved what I saw about the game, but after seeing a lot of complains it is difficult to continue.
I have AVP first and Second Edition. They did a good job with the second print.

Rodrigo,

I understand your concern, but I would suggest you to not let others decide for you. There are 'backers' who enjoy trolling and messing about campaigns. For example, one of the guys commenting negatively was called out during the LOAD campaign, because he posted in another campaign that he was part of LOAD, and I quote 'to basically troll'. When I backed LOAD I was concerned with all the negativity and because of that I decided to do my own research and then decided to increase my pledge. Being part of that campaign was one of the best experiences in Kickstarter ! Awesome miniatures, weekly updates, excellent customer service, delivered ahead of time and a fun game too. I have then been part of three more of their campaigns and been very satisfied. The main concern with some Chronicle X backers is the lack of gameplay video, but I am not worried whatsoever as I enjoy playing LOAD and enjoyed playing VoW on the TTS and will surely enjoy VoW once it arrives in Taiwan. For Chronicle X there are in a better shape as they have Glenn (who has been participating in the comments section) on board and who worked on Dungeon Saga. Anyways, have a great 2018!
 
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John
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Re: Archon / Prodos
If Archon burned you, don't back their projects. Why is AVP still being talked about 4 KS campaigns later?

Is the focus on the minis? yeah, it looks that way. This has the pieces to be the xcom game, the xcom game should have been. Pair this with some Battle Systems terrain and there's great potential. I'm aware this will take house rules, which I don't mind. If you don't feel this game achieves what you're looking for straight out of the box, again, don't back it. The AVP conversation has become annoying. By all means...read the articles and inform yourself about it, but STOP having those conversations in forums or comments sections for other games.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Re: Archon / Prodos
AngraMainyu187 wrote:
If Archon burned you, don't back their projects. Why is AVP still being talked about 4 KS campaigns later?

Probably because AvP still hasn't been fully delivered, 4 KS campaigns later? Some backers (mainly in Europe) haven't even gotten the base game yet...

-shnar
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John
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Re: Archon / Prodos
So why are these people backing more Archon games?
 
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Re: Archon / Prodos
AngraMainyu187 wrote:
So why are these people backing more Archon games?


I can't speak for the others, but I'm backing it because I like the potential of the game.

I have backed quite a few games. I didn't myself back the AvP campaign, but I have a friend who did, and I've heard and read about it in several places, and it seemed to be quite a disaster. However, Prodos eventually managed to crank out a decent product (the second edition), and after changing name to Archon, they seem to have managed to avoid AvP-like disasters, and deliver some more decent games with good-quality minis. Not completely problem free, but no big fiascos.

So, since they have experience of how these things can go wrong, and seem to be improving from project to project, I'm prepared to play the Kickstarter lottery and bet that they'll deliver something reasonably good this time. And, as someone else said earlier, even if the game turns out to be so-so, you can either fix it with house rules, or recycle the minis for other games, so it won't be a total loss even in that case.
 
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Re: Archon / Prodos
I'm also largely in for potential.

I love the theme. The art and minis are really good.

I think the tactical part of the game is adequate or better, depending on how well done the detailed parts are. (Interesting objectives on missions? What do additional heroes and aliens look like? What other interesting items are there that aren't just die pool modifiers?) Also hoping for a little more tactical complexity (such as overwatch?.)

I think the strategic part of the game has a lot of work to do, but I think the bones are there to make that a really compelling and unique part of the game. Especially if they are listening.

I'm aware of the past issues (and am glad I bailed out of AvP, I just had a bad feeling about it during the campaign.) I'm pretty patient with kickstarters overall, and have been a part of a number of high dollar kickstarters. I'm a big believer in communication plans equalling dollars, and that informed customers are your greatest champions, so I hate seeing the lack of communication here, but it is what it is, and isn't enough to drive me off yet.


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Russell Gardner

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Re: Archon / Prodos
I feel like I kinda have to stick up for these guys here. I backed vanguard of war and the game is great! Great play great minis. Delivered without an issue and from what I've felt with they do get back to personal messages in a timely manner. I can't say for avp because I didn't back that game but vow was a great experience for me personally and honestly if they did a good job on the last one and it's gotten better every time, why not back with them. But alas it's your money. If you don't want to back the game then don't. There are plenty of backers for this game and I am excited to play it. I do wish they had some reviews and gameplay by now and I've told them that's something they need to get going.
 
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Re: Archon / Prodos
AngraMainyu187 wrote:
If Archon burned you, don't back their projects. Why is AVP still being talked about 4 KS campaigns later?

AngraMainyu187 wrote:
So why are these people backing more Archon games?


"YOU GUYS, STOP TALKING ABOUT X, OTHERWISE PEOPLE MIGHT HEAR ABOUT IT AND NOT BACK!"

"Why are people backing this company when it's done X?"

I would analyze the thought process behind this pair of statements, but it might get me banned.
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John
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Re: Archon / Prodos
Let's hear it kiddo. I'd love the analysis of a moron.
 
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Re: Archon / Prodos
AngraMainyu187 wrote:
Let's hear it kiddo. I'd love the analysis of a moron.


Well now you've already given away the title.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Re: Archon / Prodos
Yeah, I got a warning for using the term "fan-boys" and I wasn't even using it in a derogatory way. They're a little sensitive here...

-shnar
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