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Subject: PSA: What the game should tell you right away about glory (stars) and capacity! rss

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At the end of game 1, having to distribute stars without any mechanical information about how glory bonuses work was extremely jarring.
Also, after reaching beginning of game 3, we realized we that we royally screwed up glory bonuses:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
We gave them at the start of game 2! once PER STAR! Of course no card told us to do that specifically, but it felt like common sense to get benefits for our stars and the bonuses were already explained by rule 28. Doh!


So here's what I wish the game had told me immediately, or at the very latest, at the end of game 1 before assigning stars.
I'm putting it in spoiler but honestly, I don't think there's any of this you will really enjoy 'surprising' you later.

About glory (stars):
Spoiler (click to reveal)
- Start of game bonuses only start at the beginning of game 3! So even though you start getting stars at the end of game 1, they won't do anything until game 3. Don't jump the gun.
- You will only get each bonus once per game, and only if you have the full row filled. So DON'T SPRINKLE YOUR STARS, invest in something and try to fill a line completely.


About capacity:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
- Don't count on having improved capacity until end of game 3, more realistically game 4 or 5, and only if that's your focus.
- Therefore, DO NO EXPECT to keep more than 1 card, one resources & one gold for a long time. Rule 29 warns of that but the glory bonus are probably giving you false hope.


Details on capacity (a bit more spoilery):
Spoiler (click to reveal)
- Because of the way glory bonuses work (see above) capacity can, at best, improves by only 1 per game, starting at the beginning of game 3.
- Depending on your group (if no one pushes the end, you can earn more points, and thus stars), it's probably realistic to imagine that you will acquire the bonus at the end of game 3, and improve your capacity the first time at the beginning of game 4 IF you focus on capacity first. So end of 4 game is probably the first time you'll be able to keep a single additional thing.
- EDIT: Another way to improve your capacity is by not winning. Non-winners get a free capacity increase starting at game 2 (I think). So that's makes capacity more accessible and potentially earlier.


Last thing, during game 2, IMPORTANT:Don't forget the guidepost!
Spoiler (click to reveal)
- We did, and at the end of game 2, that free star went almost accidentally to the most inefficient player who had lots of gold and resources left (that he all lost shortly thereafter because of capacity).
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Joao Rodrigues
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You know, I've read your complaints and I'm sorry to inform you that the game did warn you of all that. Let's recap.

Lapsus wrote:

At the end of game 1, having to distribute stars without any mechanical information about how glory bonuses work was extremely jarring.
Also, after reaching beginning of game 3, we realized we that we royally screwed up glory bonuses:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
We gave them at the start of game 2! once PER STAR! Of course no card told us to do that specifically, but it felt like common sense to get benefits for our stars and the bonuses were already explained by rule 28. Doh!

Spoiler (click to reveal)
While you are playing Game 1, Card 16 is there telling you to pull Card 17 right after the final turn of Game 1 is finished. When you pull Card 17, it goes step by step over end game rules, and it clearly says (on card 18 to be more specific) how stars on Glory works, so you shouldn't mark stars on your boxes without prior knowledge of how they work.


Lapsus wrote:
So here's what I wish the game had told me immediately, or at the very latest, at the end of game 1 before assigning stars.
I'm putting it in spoiler but honestly, I don't think there's any of this you will really enjoy 'surprising' you later.

About glory (stars):
Spoiler (click to reveal)
- Start of game bonuses only start at the beginning of game 3! So even though you start getting stars at the end of game 1, they won't do anything until game 3. Don't jump the gun.
- You will only get each bonus once per game, and only if you have the full row filled. So DON'T SPRINKLE YOUR STARS, invest in something and try to fill a line completely.

My answer for this is in my previous answer.

Lapsus wrote:
About capacity:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
- Don't count on having improved capacity until end of game 3, more realistically game 4 or 5, and only if that's your focus.
- Therefore, DO NO EXPECT to keep more than 1 card, one resources & one gold for a long time. Rule 29 warns of that but the glory bonus are probably giving you false hope.


Details on capacity (a bit more spoilery):
Spoiler (click to reveal)
- Because of the way glory bonuses work (see above) capacity can, at best, improves by only 1 per game, starting at the beginning of game 3.
- Depending on your group (if no one pushes the end, you can earn more points, and thus stars), it's probably realistic to imagine that you will acquire the bonus at the end of game 3, and improve your capacity the first time at the beginning of game 4 IF you focus on capacity first. So end of 4 game is probably the first time you'll be able to keep a single additional thing.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Just to avoid confusion, you are only talking about increasing your capacity due to glory bonus, but all players but the winner get to increase their capacity for each game they lose. So starting Game 2, every player that is not the winner will get to increase their capacity.


Lapsus wrote:
Last thing, during game 2, IMPORTANT:Don't forget the guidepost!
Spoiler (click to reveal)
- We did, and at the end of game 2, that free star went almost accidentally to the most inefficient player who had lots of gold and resources left (that he all lost shortly thereafter because of capacity).

Well... yeah... the most precious tip on a Legacy Game is DON'T JUMP THE GUN! Read everything, carefully. You will avoid mistakes and have a better game if you don't jump to conclusions and simply read everything.
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O R
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Rereading rule 28, you are right that it mentions row. File that in the 'easy to overlook' category for us then I guess. We only realized that rule once we updated rule 4.

AND we also missed the capacity thing in rule 26! Wikes! Not to late to apply that once retroactively. Damn... Lots of small text I guess. It's crazy that we missed those.
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Luke
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Even going slowly, as is needed for legacy, there's enough here to miss small things. Read everything multiple times, and make sure you're not making assumptions about how things work.
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Steve Carey
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mournful wrote:
Even going slowly, as is needed for legacy, there's enough here to miss small things. Read everything multiple times, and make sure you're not making assumptions about how things work.


That's great advice - we did so tonight, and yet still made 2 errors. The game gently holds you by the hand, but it's still quite easy to stumble if not paying full attention.

Oh, we had fun (for the most part).
 
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So it goes.
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People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool.
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Just to clarify: You only get the bonus capacity for not winning at the end of games 2 and 3 right? We didn't see anything at the end of game 4 that said non-winners could increase a capacity by 1.
 
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Jamey Stegmaier
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Starting with Game 2, if you do not win the game, you gain a capacity. That's an ongoing rule--it's noted on rule 26, which should look like this at the end of Game 2:

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So it goes.
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Shillington
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People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool.
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"You wouldn't worry half as much about what other people thought of you if you realized how rarely they actually did."
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jameystegmaier wrote:
Starting with Game 2, if you do not win the game, you gain a capacity. That's an ongoing rule--it's noted on rule 26, which should look like this at the end of Game 2:



Once again, thank you Jamey.
 
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David Arlington
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My number one warning to people about this game is READ EVERYTHING and DON'T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS based on every other game you've ever played. Everything you need to play it right is really there.

And I'm not lecturing, because I was guilty of the exact same things. \

The example that amused me most was when I thought something was a typo because it was referring to a rule I had unlocked and before I knew/realized that you might be stickering over existing rules many times in this game.

I thought it was kind of sad that past games had led me to assume that the game was more likely to have a typo and I would be right rather than the game was just right all along and I was reading too much into it.

Dave
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Chris Griffin
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Real PSA:

Capacity
Spoiler (click to reveal)
If you choose capacity as your first choice and almost always lose by just a little bit, you will max your capacity long before campaign is over.


Peril
Spoiler (click to reveal)
If you choose peril tokens later, and you play with people who build buildings; there will not be enough peril tokens for anyone to receive their bonus.
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Jamey Stegmaier
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Chris: I have a note about the second part you mentioned, as I think you might be missing something about how the peril glory bonus works.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
During setup, you randomly place 1 peril token on each building in each charter. Then the glory bonuses trigger, and if you have the peril glory bonus, you get to remove 1 peril from 1 of your buildings and place it in your personal supply. So at most, if all 6 players have that bonus, 6 peril tokens will be removed from the board at the end of setup. At the end of the game, all 36 peril tokens end up back in the general supply, as you can't keep them. Based on all of that, there's never a situation when there wouldn't be enough peril tokens for everyone to gain their peril glory bonus.
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