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Xia: Embers of a Forsaken Star» Forums » General

Subject: D12 engine problem rss

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Ian Nelson
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Hi guys - my gaming group have a serious problem killing the game which we need help with. The problem is that it seems D12 engine (with +2 add ons) is a MUST pick. Being as fast as possible, speedily getting exploration tokens and completing missions / trading, is by far the best strategy.

Do people have house rules to nerf the engine, and/or to nerf strategies which involve speeding around leaving slow ships with weapons in the dust?
 
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DB
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Have any of you been trying to go full pirate and blow up the speedy ships without room for shields and weapons?
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Dan Harrow
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dpbush wrote:
Have any of you been trying to go full pirate and blow up the speedy ships without room for shields and weapons?

I did that in my last game and it worked out particularly well lol
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Ian Nelson
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dpbush wrote:
Have any of you been trying to go full pirate and blow up the speedy ships without room for shields and weapons?


I feel that piracy is no where near as fruitful in fame points - particularly when they get shields and it becomes very difficult to kill people who can also outrun you across the galaxy easily.
 
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Ian Nelson
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I'd also add that usually if anyone gets injured we just quickly kill ourselves before anyone can finish us - only lose your mission or cargo, which you'd loose anyway if you die in combat
 
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Jacob Williams
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ijrnelson87 wrote:
dpbush wrote:
Have any of you been trying to go full pirate and blow up the speedy ships without room for shields and weapons?


I feel that piracy is no where near as fruitful in fame points - particularly when they get shields and it becomes very difficult to kill people who can also outrun you across the galaxy easily.


100% agree with this. It seems like whenever someone asks a question lime this, the standard answer is to get weapons, which frankly doesn't work in most situations.
 
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Brian Torrens
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A fast engine can be a powerful strategy, but I have seen powerful guns as a winning strategy as well. Don’t forget that you can score FP by taking out NPC ships as well as other players. In a recent game, the winner had powerful weapons with boosters as well as two armour mods. Everyone in the game had to do our best to stay out of his attack range. He was able to outright destroy almost any ship in a single turn! If there were no players within range, he would take out any nearby NPC. At the end of the game he had a rediculous bounty, but no one could take him out.

I had been playing a combination of trading, mining and missions with a mid-sized engine (with boosters), a decent shield with the environment upgrade and later, in response to our pirate problem, an armour upgrade. I wasn’t far beind the leader when the game ended.

I have found in the games we have played that there is really no one wining strategy. The way to win is to be adaptable to the Titles and Events that turn up and adaptable to the strategies that your opponents take. I think that is really one of the things that keeps me coming back to Xia. I have yet to finish a game playing the same game strategy I started out with
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Edwin Woody
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Brian T wrote:
A fast engine can be a powerful strategy, but I have seen powerful guns as a winning strategy as well. Don’t forget that you can score FP by taking out NPC ships as well as other players. In a recent game, the winner had powerful weapons with boosters as well as two armour mods. Everyone in the game had to do our best to stay out of his attack range. He was able to outright destroy almost any ship in a single turn! If there were no players within range, he would take out any nearby NPC. At the end of the game he had a rediculous bounty, but no one could take him out.

I had been playing a combination of trading, mining and missions with a mid-sized engine (with boosters), a decent shield with the environment upgrade and later, in response to our pirate problem, an armour upgrade. I wasn’t far beind the leader when the game ended.

I have found in the games we have played that there is really no one wining strategy. The way to win is to be adaptable to the Titles and Events that turn up and adaptable to the strategies that your opponents take. I think that is really one of the things that keeps me coming back to Xia. I have yet to finish a game playing the same game strategy I started out with


This.

The NPCs are all fame points just waiting to be harvested.
Over and over.
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Allen J
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ijrnelson87 wrote:
dpbush wrote:
Have any of you been trying to go full pirate and blow up the speedy ships without room for shields and weapons?


I feel that piracy is no where near as fruitful in fame points - particularly when they get shields and it becomes very difficult to kill people who can also outrun you across the galaxy easily.



You feel wrong there mate.
 
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Ira Fay
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You definitely need an engine. I don't think that's anything broken.

The question is: how big of an engine do you need? Clearly a d6 engine with no GTS mods isn't so great. But do you need a d12 engine with 4 GTS mods, always rolling 9 or better? That could be nice, but it may be overkill. That's 9 cargo spots and 7k invested.

Another thing to consider are ship powers. If you have an ability or two that can improvement movement, maybe you don't need to invest as much in an engine.

Certainly you can win the game with less than d12 + 4 GTS. I also think it would be quite hard to win a longer game (15+ FP) with only a d6 engine and no GTS. But there is a lot of room between those two points on the spectrum.

I don't think there's anything wrong with requiring players to have engines on their ships, and to invest in them to varying degrees.
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Brian Torrens
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I have won a game with only a D6 engine and one engine mod. It’s been a while so I don’t recall the exact details but I will say that my choice of ships, the layout of the board and one or two titles allowed me to win quite handlily without ever upgrading my engine. I recall that everytime I would think “I should really upgrade my engine” something would allow me to earn more FP without doing so. I can chalk that victory up to good fortune, but again, you really need to base your strategy on the game state.
 
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I never really found them to be that important or needed until late game. A D8 engine with a GTS or two on it does the trick just find and takes up less space.

Dumb question, but you are giving the D12 engine a max of 12 right? I could see it easily seeming overpowered if you missed that rule and were letting it hit 16 with 2 GTS' on it.
 
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Bern Harkins
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Honestly, I nearly always start with a D12, and most of my group does the same. We love Discovery Tokens, and feel a real need for speed.

That said, the other engines do get used now and then, for instance:

Extra Ram die - An extra D6 or 8 can make all the difference... Inefficient, but it can snag you the Viking title in some games

Capital - Sometimes you really need cash to make cash, and you're not going all that far

Four Engine Activations - For very long trips, or race elements like Velocity Warden or towing the Hulk.


As far myself, I'll go on emphasizing speed most games, but I do appreciate that this system has the flexibility to allow us great latitude in adapting to the game conditions.
 
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Doug DeMoss
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ijrnelson87 wrote:
dpbush wrote:
Have any of you been trying to go full pirate and blow up the speedy ships without room for shields and weapons?


I feel that piracy is no where near as fruitful in fame points - particularly when they get shields and it becomes very difficult to kill people who can also outrun you across the galaxy easily.


Shields become a LOT less powerful if people start buying shield piercers. They're also cheap and require no extra hold space.
 
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ijrnelson87 wrote:
I'd also add that usually if anyone gets injured we just quickly kill ourselves before anyone can finish us - only lose your mission or cargo, which you'd loose anyway if you die in combat


When you said that, just then, did it sound stoopid to you, too?
 
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demoss1 wrote:
ijrnelson87 wrote:
dpbush wrote:
Have any of you been trying to go full pirate and blow up the speedy ships without room for shields and weapons?


I feel that piracy is no where near as fruitful in fame points - particularly when they get shields and it becomes very difficult to kill people who can also outrun you across the galaxy easily.


Shields become a LOT less powerful if people start buying shield piercers. They're also cheap and require no extra hold space.


Oh, man! I need to get this expansion. These new outfits sound amazing!
 
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Ian Nelson
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It does, but given you take no penalty in the expansion for dying other than losing the tail end of your turn, it seems absolutely viable.
 
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Ian Nelson
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Phogg wrote:
Brian T wrote:
A fast engine can be a powerful strategy, but I have seen powerful guns as a winning strategy as well. Don’t forget that you can score FP by taking out NPC ships as well as other players. In a recent game, the winner had powerful weapons with boosters as well as two armour mods. Everyone in the game had to do our best to stay out of his attack range. He was able to outright destroy almost any ship in a single turn! If there were no players within range, he would take out any nearby NPC. At the end of the game he had a rediculous bounty, but no one could take him out.

I had been playing a combination of trading, mining and missions with a mid-sized engine (with boosters), a decent shield with the environment upgrade and later, in response to our pirate problem, an armour upgrade. I wasn’t far beind the leader when the game ended.

I have found in the games we have played that there is really no one wining strategy. The way to win is to be adaptable to the Titles and Events that turn up and adaptable to the strategies that your opponents take. I think that is really one of the things that keeps me coming back to Xia. I have yet to finish a game playing the same game strategy I started out with


This.

The NPCs are all fame points just waiting to be harvested.
Over and over.


This seems like useful advice - I guess we haven't focuses enough on swatting down the NPCs over and over. Also using multiple small engines is interesting.
 
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Derek Dyer
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Whoever is balancing more plates on there head successfully is nearly always going to win that game of Xia.

That means doing a mission, while trading goods on that route, picking up exploration tokens as you go... and maybe getting a fortuitous attacking opportunity.

Bigger engines allow you to do more, and gives you more leeway to do it in. Engines are literally the most important aspect for *any* vehicle. Why wouldn't you expect people to focus on that?

A question I have is what strategy(s) are you attempting to employ (to win) that makes you *want* to have a smaller engine, and nerf people that have a bigger one?

Another factor I always consider, which is why I don't use d8 engines at all, is the resale factor. You're losing money if you want to upgrade a T2->T3 engine. So I either start with a d12, or a d6+1GTS, and when I upgrade I go straight to the T3. You don't lose any money selling the T1 engine or a mod, and that means you can upgrade to T3 for 1kCr... then buy another GTS for 1k in the future (or keep it if you have the money and space.)
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Adrian H
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ijrnelson87 wrote:
It does, but given you take no penalty in the expansion for dying other than losing the tail end of your turn, it seems absolutely viable.


well you also re-spawn with damage. Depending on what you are trying to do that damage can be really annoying.
 
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Edwin Woody
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crikeythecat wrote:
ijrnelson87 wrote:
It does, but given you take no penalty in the expansion for dying other than losing the tail end of your turn, it seems absolutely viable.


well you also re-spawn with damage. Depending on what you are trying to do that damage can be really annoying.


Or it can sit there on your armor pods blocking ice damage from having a path to spread into your ship interior. If you set your ship up to utilize it, that damage can be turned into an asset.
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