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Subject: Number of scenarios rss

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Jor Ray
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Hello,
I wonder how many scenarios would be in the game. With conan they got at the beggining too scarce, but after a while they release a few more.

I am hoping that they break the market this time, with 30 initials scenarios. That would be amazing.

What do you think?
 
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Commander Darken
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I can't think of 30 scenarios in the core box.

Core box alone I guess 10 - 12 scenarios (1 campaign with about 6 scenarios and the same number of single scenarios).

Every addon adds about 6 more scenarios (1 campaign)

As You can replace the main villain and the heroes You have much replay value.
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Connor Tripp
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Since this is a Kickstarter-exclusive game, I can easily see a vast number of scenarios being added through stretch goals, which I imagien many will be hit.
 
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Brant Benoit
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Scapemage wrote:
Since this is a Kickstarter-exclusive game, I can easily see a vast number of scenarios being added through stretch goals, which I imagien many will be hit.


Let's hope they do this, instead of what they did with Conan - offer up a tons of minis that don't get used in any scenarios.
I want models sure, but not if all they do is sit in a box. I don't need to have loads of plastic I can't use.

More gameplay included with the extra models please. I'd say cut back on the superfluous plastic, and give us more to actually play.
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Alvin Lo

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Ghool wrote:
Scapemage wrote:
Since this is a Kickstarter-exclusive game, I can easily see a vast number of scenarios being added through stretch goals, which I imagien many will be hit.


Let's hope they do this, instead of what they did with Conan - offer up a tons of minis that don't get used in any scenarios.
I want models sure, but not if all they do is sit in a box. I don't need to have loads of plastic I can't use.

More gameplay included with the extra models please. I'd say cut back on the superfluous plastic, and give us more to actually play.


I much prefer miniatures than scenarios in stretch goals. They can provide whatever free scenarios from their website like conan. Miniature is something that they cannot give us after the game is shipped.
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brian
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alvinltlo wrote:
Ghool wrote:
Scapemage wrote:
Since this is a Kickstarter-exclusive game, I can easily see a vast number of scenarios being added through stretch goals, which I imagien many will be hit.


Let's hope they do this, instead of what they did with Conan - offer up a tons of minis that don't get used in any scenarios.
I want models sure, but not if all they do is sit in a box. I don't need to have loads of plastic I can't use.

More gameplay included with the extra models please. I'd say cut back on the superfluous plastic, and give us more to actually play.


I much prefer miniatures than scenarios in stretch goals. They can provide whatever free scenarios from their website like conan. Miniature is something that they cannot give us after the game is shipped.

Agreed, they should have a good balance between the two but I'd rather have the minis as well. Scenarios are much easier to create and distribute after the fact. Especially fan created ones. I'd rather see more figures.
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Brant Benoit
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alvinltlo wrote:
Ghool wrote:
Scapemage wrote:
Since this is a Kickstarter-exclusive game, I can easily see a vast number of scenarios being added through stretch goals, which I imagien many will be hit.


Let's hope they do this, instead of what they did with Conan - offer up a tons of minis that don't get used in any scenarios.
I want models sure, but not if all they do is sit in a box. I don't need to have loads of plastic I can't use.

More gameplay included with the extra models please. I'd say cut back on the superfluous plastic, and give us more to actually play.


I much prefer miniatures than scenarios in stretch goals. They can provide whatever free scenarios from their website like conan. Miniature is something that they cannot give us after the game is shipped.


But superfluous plastic is still just that, even if it's not available after the KS.

I'd rather have a physical booklet containing scenarios in which I can use all of the bonus content and miniatures we all know they will be adding for stretch goals.
Digital scenarios just don't cut it for me, and I assume many others. Just take a look at how the limited run of the Book of Set kinda blew up. They had to redact the limited run, and make more due to so many wanting a physical copy of the scenarios.
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Jor Ray
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Why having 136 minis??? I prefer a game with tons of interesting and meaningful with epic scenarios, than 76 expendable minis.

As we don't have enough minis from all kind of games.
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Justin Bolles
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I’m in the middle. I want a lot of stories and characters covered from the Batman mythos.
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Kevin Young
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Minis without scenarios/gameplay are a waste of space and money for me.
(KS Zombicide, Masmorra, Massive Darkness are big offenders)
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Greg
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While some people may not use a bunch of extra minis, others may not end up using a bunch of extra scenarios.

Scenarios are easy to create, and I'd think that with a bunch of comics fans likely to be buying this game, that the thematic scenarios should come easy for fans to create.
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Jor Ray
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No way!
This is a GAME. More figurines doesnt mean more game. More scenarios really mean more play time. You can buy figurines at your local store. Batman has plenty of minis across the world.

I just want to live scenarios well tested, not to look for stories made by amateurs. I hope the authors doesnt listen just to the people that keep saying 'minis, moar minis' .

I want a game that I can play multiple times, specially if I am going to pay a lot for it.
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brian
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If we wanted minis from other games, we would buy those games instead. I am purposely supporting this game because I don't want minis from Batman Miniatures game for example. I want a cohesive look.

I agree Figures without scenarios is pointless as much as scenarios without figures is pointless. You need a balance. But what we are saying is that if one side has to be higher than the other, having more figures would be better to have a cohesive look. It is more expensive to produce miniatures and distribute them than it is to produce quality scenarios.

Playtested, quality scenarios can be added to this game easier than miniatures. So better to get miniatures now as part of this initial KS and let more scenarios follow later.
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Jor Ray
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Nowadays, there are 24 official Conan scenarios.

That is too few. I cant count on them saying they will be releasing more. I like miniatures. But I would love a relationship of 1 mini that would be used in at minimum 5 scenarios.

Gloomhaven is top 1 game in bgg not because its minis / monsters, but because it has plenty of interesting scenarios. If 136 minis is not enough for you... I want more scenarios to play with them.
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Brant Benoit
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
Playtested, quality scenarios can be added to this game easier than miniatures.


This made me choke on my tea, and some even went up my nose.
Clearly, you need some insight....
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Greg
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Ideally, there would be a good balance in having a lot of scenarios and a lot of minis. This game is going to cost a lot of money, so the supporters should get a lot of content.

When companies choose to be KS only and no plans for retail, they need to make the most of the product they are selling. They put themselves in this position, so they need to figure out how to please the biggest croup as possible.

While extra minis might not matter to the casual comics fan, the hardcore comics fans may have a wide range of heroes, villains and storylines that are favorites to them. So adding extra minis, for some people, means they can have a better chance of playing out stories that they want to with the characters that they are most interested in.

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Greg
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Ghool wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
Playtested, quality scenarios can be added to this game easier than miniatures.


This made me choke on my tea, and some even went up my nose.
Clearly, you need some insight....


So you are saying that it would be easier for Monolith to design and produce more minis for this game at a later date than to test and release PDFs more scenarios at a later date?

I've come up with scenarios for several games and it's not rocket science.
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Greg
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Cheno wrote:
Nowadays, there are 24 official Conan scenarios.

That is too few. I cant count on them saying they will be releasing more. I like miniatures. But I would love a relationship of 1 mini that would be used in at minimum 5 scenarios.

Gloomhaven is top 1 game in bgg not because its minis / monsters, but because it has plenty of interesting scenarios. If 136 minis is not enough for you... I want more scenarios to play with them.


Gloomhaven is number 1 because of the legacy aspect of the game and because it's a Euro game that brings Euro game players to a dungeon crawl setting. The scenarios aren't all that compelling, as you mostly go in and fight monsters, loot and hopefully get something neat as a reward at the end. It's popular because you get to level up your characters and buy things between scenarios, and customize your character's deck of cards to suit the mission. It has branching pathways so you can end up locking out certain scenarios.

Having a ton of similar scenarios isn't the reason Gloomhaven is #1
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Jor Ray
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He is saying that giving good scenarios is nowhere easy. And Conan doesnt have tons of them, precisely.

We are defending that we don't want useless miniatuires, or one time miniatures. We want thrilling scenarios that'll make this minis shine!

I want to paint a mini to play it several times!
 
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Jor Ray
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If Gloomhaven would be 15 scenarios long, but with legacy components, you really think it would be that high? seriously?

Of course is not just the number of scenarios. But many scenarious would bring lots of experiences and situations.
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J P
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Cheno wrote:
Nowadays, there are 24 official Conan scenarios.

That is too few. I cant count on them saying they will be releasing more. I like miniatures. But I would love a relationship of 1 mini that would be used in at minimum 5 scenarios.

Gloomhaven is top 1 game in bgg not because its minis / monsters, but because it has plenty of interesting scenarios. If 136 minis is not enough for you... I want more scenarios to play with them.


No, there are about 50 official Conan scenarios when you count the Kings Pledge, Campaign Book, and big box expansions.

Also, Gloomhaven may have around 100 scenarios, but 75% of them are very much the same. Whereas most of the Conan scenarios play very differently.
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Brant Benoit
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Hahma wrote:
Ghool wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
Playtested, quality scenarios can be added to this game easier than miniatures.


This made me choke on my tea, and some even went up my nose.
Clearly, you need some insight....


So you are saying that it would be easier for Monolith to design and produce more minis for this game at a later date than to test and release PDFs for scenarios at a later date?


I'm saying it take much less time to sculpt and produce a mini than it does a quality, well-balanced scenario. I'd rather they focus on creating a quality base game, with some added content (both scenarios and minis) than just producing the entire Batman universe in miniature and leaving scenarios for later.

There can be future Kickstarters. Why does everything need to be produced in one go just to satisfy the hardcore rabid fans?
It has been proven that KS campaigns that expand games are possible, and they do succeed.

I will refer you again to the Book of Set KS.
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brian
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Cheno wrote:
He is saying that giving good scenarios is nowhere easy. And Conan doesnt have tons of them, precisely.

We are defending that we don't want useless miniatuires, or one time miniatures. We want thrilling scenarios that'll make this minis shine!

I want to paint a mini to play it several times!

I didn't say it was "easy." I said it was easier to "add and distribute." A company can come up with a solid scenario and issue it as a PDF and get it to backers more easily then coming up with a sculpt, a mold, producing and shipping minis to everyone. Whether you want that scenario as a printed resource or electronic copy is only a matter of personal taste - I find it easier to add a printed scenario than a mocked up game piece. Much like I'd rather see an error in the rules than on the components (though I'd obviously rather have neither).

Now, If Monolith can't figure out how to do that, then that is a different story. But I look at someone like Days of Wonder that produced quality Memoir '44 scenarios and posted them on their web page, or GMT issuing cardstock scenarios for Ancients and Napoleonics in their magazines, it was definitely easier to distribute those then coming up with new figures/blocks for the games. With M'44 we even got a whole expansion of "useless" stuff in the Terrain Pack that they eventually started using in PDF published scenarios.

But all this is moot. Monolith is going to do what Monolith wants to do. And my limited experience with them is they aren't really going to budge because of something said here.
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brian
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Ghool wrote:
I'm saying it take much less time to sculpt and produce a mini than it does a quality, well-balanced scenario.

And distribution? That was the part you failed to copy in your clipped quip.
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Greg
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Cheno wrote:
If Gloomhaven would be 15 scenarios long, but with legacy components, you really think it would be that high? seriously?

Of course is not just the number of scenarios. But many scenarious would bring lots of experiences and situations.


No, of course I don't think it would do well with only 15 scenarios. But it wouldn't do well without all the other stuff either, and the scenarios are mostly similar. It's a legacy campaign where several scenarios are locked when you make certain choices or when certain elements are going on in the Gloomhaven world. So not all of the included scenarios are going to be played in a campaign. The nature of the campaign requires that many scenarios because of them not all being playable, as well as you needing to play several of them for your character to be able to level up and then retire.

Also, keep in mind that while Gloomhaven only has a small number of miniatures, there are a ton of enemies to fight. They are standees and not minis because it would be cost prohibitive and storage prohibitive to have had all the enemies be minis, or there would have been a lot fewer variety designed to be able to accommodate it.

It's not so much the variety in scenarios for Gloomhaven, but the variety of enemies that helps keep similar scenarios fresh. If there were half as many enemy types, a lot of people would be complaining that despite the number of scenarios, they would feel too samey.

Mice and Mystics had a good variety in how the scenarios played, but there were only a small amount of enemy types. That was a complaint of the base game. The Heart of Glorm small expansion introduced a new boss, some new scenarios and variations of the existing enemies to make them different and fresh. The big expansion Downwood Tales offered maybe 10 or 11 new scenarios, but also a lot more enemy types.

Ultimately, I don't think that a ton of scenarios doesn't mean much without a lot of variety in "actors" in those scenarios. Or, if the scenarios are too samey in execution.
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