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Subject: Geodens Strategy rss

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J V
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Has anyone had any success with the Geodes?

Tried them once (and made some bad mistakes) and it went badly wrong.

Right now I am thinking try to get the terraform or cycle 4 power round boosters, build the PI then try to build two mines (likely a gaia planet and a 1 terraform planet (using the passing bonus tile action or the power action). Then upgrading one of the mines to a TP. Which is 10 ore and 16c

Likely ending up with 2 navigation and 1 terraforming, and 2 knowledge left over. The QIC from navigation 1 would be needed to put a mine on the gaia planet as you would need both a range boost and a QIC to make the planet habitable.

Then turn 2 you build a RL (possibly taking the cycle 4 power action) then try to get a power action to terraform again on T2, either the other 1 terraform planet or a 2 terraform planet if you can get the power.

An alternative is the PI and RL on turn 1 and expanding on turn 2 I guess, hopefully the planets you need would still be available.

The Geodens feel like they will be good when they get going, but hard to bootstrap as the PI is needed for max science boost from mines, but will be a drag on your economy. You probably also need terraforming 3 and navigation 2.

Anyway right now they feel a bit weak to me, but interested in other peoples opinion.
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Jonathan Delano
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Have only played them one against automata. They seemed extremely powerful, but the setup was also very friendly to Geodens.
I basically went PI, terraform and navigation tracks in round 1. By round 3 I had collected all planet types except the lost planet, then took planet type advanced tech tile and hit the 2 QIC action on rounds 4, 5, and 6.

I'm thinking that they may also benefit from going up on the knowledge track early in the game, as the Geodens seem to be very good at the first 3 rounds, but need a later rounds strat. If the 2 QIC spot is taken or the planet type tile is not available, then perhaps they can use their early knowledge burst to secure research track dominance in the late game.
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Brent Celmins
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It seems to me that the Geodens want their PI in Rd 1-2, though Rd 1 seems like it would cripple their economy too much.

Since they're an expansionary faction, I would want the +3NAV booster in Rd 1 so they can reach a home planet in Rd 1 to bolster the economy somewhat through a TS and 2 mines (or maybe a RL if the +4c research tile is well placed for going up a useful research track), and then they can built the PI in Rd 2 and start pumping out science when they build.

I think they really want to go up to level 3 on Terraforming to keep costs low (and also to avoid having to use the power for terraforming actions) and get to the Lost Planet on Nav. That's 16 points right there (+3 science for the Lost Planet), and if you have that science engine running, they can probably shoot up the track in AI or economy track to get another 8-12 points.

Also, they really need at least Most Planet types for end game scoring, and probably Most Sectors. If both are out, they would seem like a pretty good pick since those are going to mesh with expanding through their PI ability. Most Gaia planets probably weakens them significantly even if Most Planet Types is out (moreso if someone is the Gleens).
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Jon Kern
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I think you want to shoot up on Terraforming and get your PI. Use QIC early game to get around to different planet clusters and colonize the various types for a massive influx of Knowledge. This should allow you to get to the top of Terraforming for the Federation Tile. After this, optimizing Knowledge income and getting high on the QIC track to have sufficient QIC on rounds 4-6 to score points looks important. If you can take a QIC action on round 3 without killing your knowledge income even better. Also, feel free to grab a good scoring tech on knowledge, Terraforming, or the QIC track as Green federation tokens should not be much of an issue as you will get 1 from going to the top of Terraforming (usually), and 2-3 from forming federations.
 
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James Wolfpacker
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SWxNW wrote:
It seems to me that the Geodens want their PI in Rd 1-2, though Rd 1 seems like it would cripple their economy too much.

Since they're an expansionary faction, I would want the +3NAV booster in Rd 1 so they can reach a home planet in Rd 1 to bolster the economy somewhat through a TS and 2 mines (or maybe a RL if the +4c research tile is well placed for going up a useful research track), and then they can built the PI in Rd 2 and start pumping out science when they build.

I think they really want to go up to level 3 on Terraforming to keep costs low (and also to avoid having to use the power for terraforming actions) and get to the Lost Planet on Nav. That's 16 points right there (+3 science for the Lost Planet), and if you have that science engine running, they can probably shoot up the track in AI or economy track to get another 8-12 points.

Also, they really need at least Most Planet types for end game scoring, and probably Most Sectors. If both are out, they would seem like a pretty good pick since those are going to mesh with expanding through their PI ability. Most Gaia planets probably weakens them significantly even if Most Planet Types is out (moreso if someone is the Gleens).


I think this is a best angle so far in this thread.
 
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zheng drw
China
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Geodens is obviously a strong faction after you play servarl times.
your PI vill provide up to 3 * 8 = 24k, sometimes crush others technology.

Enjoy the rhythm of expanding and promotion technology!
 
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Jon Kern
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I just wanted to have a calculated out first 2 rounds for the Geodens.

Starting Resources: (O: 9 C: 15 K: 4 P: I:4 II:2 Q: 1) + Round Bonus

R1: Goal should be to end with a RL and 2 Mines this requires O:6 C:10 and 1 QIC on the standard map to go from Orange Planet in Sector 1 to the Orange Planet in Sector 5. Obviously coins are going to be an issue. We ideally want the 4 coin tech tile, but we can manage, most likely, with the charge 4 power one as well. Use your tech advance and RL tech tile preferably on Terraforming twice. We are adjacent to at least a red planet on Sector 1 which should be our next target to expand to once we finish our PI in round 2. If you took the charge 4 Power tile try to get the C:7 power action.

Resources at start of R2: (O:6 C:9-12 K:2 P: Varies Q:0) + Round Bonus

R2: We need O:8 C:11 to build our PI and an additional Mine. Use the round bonuses and power actions to secure these additional resources (O:2 C:0-2). Remember that you have the resources from 2 round tiles as we didn't need any bonus income from the round 1 tile. Build the PI and construct a Mine on the adjacent Red Planet in Sector 1. Gain 3k. Start advancing on the Nav track as we need Nav 2 to reach most other planets.

The Geodens need 1 additional K as they will have 1 left over at the end of R2 and 2K income to reach Nav 2 at the start of round 3. Hopefully, the round bonuses and power actions will make this extra knowledge accesible and allow you to settle at least 2 additional planets in round 3 one most likely beign a Gaia Planet using the QIC gained from Nav:1.
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J V
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I think you want to try to end the first turn with the standard RL+TP+mine+mine. The complication is it should be 2 orange planets that you build the extra mines on.

If you take the +1 QIC or the +3 range bonus then hopefully that is possible. Take navigation twice so you can then settle one planet at range 5 (nav 2 +3)and one at range 4 (using a QIC), leaving a QIC to settle a gaia planet hopefully on T2.

Then on T2 build the PI and hopefully build 2 mines, one taking the a power action/passing bonus action terraform, the other on a gaia planet. The 6 knowledge from that together with the two knowledge income in R2 gives terraforming 3 and you are well set with PI,RL, and 4 mines.

This is doable in the standard 4 player map as if you settle the two orange planets in the middle at the top then there are other orange planets at range 5 and range 3, but you would need the +3 range. In 2 player you are looking at trying to settle all 4 orange planets though which might be difficult (edit : though it is possible with the standard setup)


As long as you can settle 2 orange planets on T1 I think you are ok, otherwise take a different race. The need for an early PI which can tank your economy makes them hard to bootstrap.

Edit :: Possibly setting one of the 1 terraform planets on T1 would also be ok (using the power/round bonus action) as long as you can settle a gaia and the other 1 terraform planet on T2.
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Robert
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eyesavant wrote:
I think you want to try to end the first turn with the standard RL+TP+mine+mine. The complication is it should be 2 orange planets that you build the extra mines on.
While I agree to the "want to try" part, I think you're setting a pretty high standard with the "standard RL+TP+mine+mine", and more so if the two new planets need to be orange.
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James Wolfpacker
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DocCool wrote:
eyesavant wrote:
I think you want to try to end the first turn with the standard RL+TP+mine+mine. The complication is it should be 2 orange planets that you build the extra mines on.
While I agree to the "want to try" part, I think you're setting a pretty high standard with the "standard RL+TP+mine+mine", and more so if the two new planets need to be orange.


I agree the "standard" is being set a little high for requiring them to be 2 more orange/volcanic planets. Though eyesavant has a good starting strategy for Geodens on the base map when it is feasible. Sometimes it will be easier or more difficult to achieve on random adjusted maps.
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J V
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DocCool wrote:
eyesavant wrote:
I think you want to try to end the first turn with the standard RL+TP+mine+mine. The complication is it should be 2 orange planets that you build the extra mines on.
While I agree to the "want to try" part, I think you're setting a pretty high standard with the "standard RL+TP+mine+mine", and more so if the two new planets need to be orange.


Yeah for sure it is difficult, but this game is such a snowballing game that a poor first turn will be costly. I do think the geodens are a situational race just from how the economy works.

Probably you can get away with using yellow/red/green planet on T1, as long as you get the other two on T2. Will then likely cost you 3 science on T3, which is probably ok.

It feels like because of the weakness the early PI causes to the economy the geodens are situational. Is the range booster turn bonus in the game? Do we have most planet types/most sectors in the game? Are you 3rd or 4th player so you can get the round booster you need?

If it goes right the science from the PI and from the science for number of different planet types tech tile could give a big score, particularly with the right end game scoring.

Assuming standard setup, where you set everything up and pick a race from the first player, then round bonuses backwards, I would want near perfect conditions to take them ahead of the xenos say who can have a very powerful economy after an acadamy/mine/mine start and taking the 4 QIC action which is a lot easier than the above.

But yeah right now they feel situational, with the potential to be great if it goes well at the start as they snowball hard, but at the same time easy to stall.
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Arthur CJK
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SWxNW wrote:
It seems to me that the Geodens want their PI in Rd 1-2, though Rd 1 seems like it would cripple their economy too much.


I think a Rd1 PI and Rd2 RL combination should be nice too.

Take the +1 knowledge booster tile and go for Navigation Lv2 first. This can be done by using power action "Terraform". Then use the 2 QIC you have to land more planets. Another approach is taking the terraform booster tile, for this we need to make sure there's something close enough to terraform when you have no range at all.

If there's no Red and Yellow in the game, life for the Geodens will be much easier...
 
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J V
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What else are you building when you build a PI on T1? The PI has a terrible income, with 4 power cycle in perfect conditions being the same as the 1 ore you get from a mine (looking at the 4 power from bowl 3 for 2 ore action, which takes 8 power cycle).

With RL+TP+mine+mine you get 3 ore, 4 money and 2 science income plus an income tech tile (with the restriction that it needed to boost navigation, but hopefully one of the 4 that can boost navigation is good probably the 4 money or 1 ore and 1 power cycle are best.).

A turn 1 PI feels like a trap to me as it tanks your income too much, but how do you see the rest of the turn going? The extra leech is potentially useful.
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Jon Kern
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Quote:
I think you want to try to end the first turn with the standard RL+TP+mine+mine. The complication is it should be 2 orange planets that you build the extra mines on.


Do you think races that want to go R1: RL into R2: PI that will not be going up on the economy track need to open RL+TS+M+M to be viable? I think it might be a good benchmark for faction selection if a race needs an economic start this strong to be considered.
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Space Trucker
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PI starts can definitly work for Geodens, too. I guess usually you'll want to build at least one more mine and somehow get enough knowledge for a second tech step. In my latest game with Geodens we ha d a big buildings bonus in round 1, so I started with PI + 4 Mines, digging both a red and a yellow planet for 6 knowledge. Money was very short after this start, but an early coin federation could solve this problem.
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Arthur CJK
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eyesavant wrote:
What else are you building when you build a PI on T1? The PI has a terrible income, with 4 power cycle in perfect conditions being the same as the 1 ore you get from a mine (looking at the 4 power from bowl 3 for 2 ore action, which takes 8 power cycle).

With RL+TP+mine+mine you get 3 ore, 4 money and 2 science income plus an income tech tile (with the restriction that it needed to boost navigation, but hopefully one of the 4 that can boost navigation is good probably the 4 money or 1 ore and 1 power cycle are best.).

A turn 1 PI feels like a trap to me as it tanks your income too much, but how do you see the rest of the turn going? The extra leech is potentially useful.


RL+TP+mine+mine is powerful and it means you probably have the Nav+3 booster tile. If you don't have the Nav+3 booster tile you will lose chances for 3 or even 6 knowledge points.

With the PI built in R1 I will power terraform a planet nearby and get to Nav 2 and land a gaia planet and that means 6 knowledge points in return. The rest is building more mines. It is also possible that you can get extra three planet types in R1 if you have the Terraform booster tile.

Before upgrading terraform tech I will make sure there's some planets to explore or I won't do it. So navigation is the most important thing in the beginning in most of the cases.
 
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J V
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You do have to work through the actions carefully, but yes a R1 PI can work. If you can get the 1o 1s booster then you can end with PI+TP+M+M as long as you can grap the terraform power action on your 3rd action (which might need burning power). Which is probably better than RL+TP+M+M as getting a PI and 2 mines in R2 might be a struggle.

Start then with 10 ore which is enough, 15 money which is 1 short and 5 science which is important as it means you only need to settle one new planet type to get navigation 2.

Would need to spend 4 power for 1c and the terraform action, possibly a QIC together with the 1 terraform action depending on how good a location the range one, terraform 1 planets are. Then the QIC from navigation to settle a gaia planet.

Then R2 you will have 4 knowledge and can build a RL which will give you terraforming 3 and you are set.

This is definitely easier to pull off. Just need the terraform action to be open on your 3rd action, leech some power and get the 1 science 1 ore round bonus, which is not going to be heavily contested on the first round I think.

PI+4 mines does not give a lot of income and you would probably need to terraform a 2 terraform planet on R2 to get to Terraform 3/navigation 2.
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Jon Kern
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I think the PI+TS+M+M is very strong especially if you are playing on the standard map as you can move up to terraforming 3 round 1 and delay Navigation until R2 if the desired Gaia Planet gets taken early.

R1: Goal should be to end with a PI + 2 Mines + TS, possibly forming a federation, this requires O:10 C:16 + settling costs. On the standard 4 player map, place starting mines on the orange planets in sector 1 adjacent to a red planet and sector 5 adjacent to a yellow planet. Build your PI spending O:6 and C:9. Use the terraform power action to build a mine on the red or yellow planet. Use 8k to increase terraforming track to level 3. Use 2 Ore to settle the other adjacent red/yellow planet. Spend Q:1 as Ore and 1 power for 1 coin to build a TS. Form a federation now or at the start of R2 if desired.
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James Wolfpacker
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That's a PI opening that's worth it. Especially with PI R1 and Fed R2 if you can take the top of the Terraforming track in R2 for 10vp.
 
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Jon Kern
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Not only that you also can take advantage, usually of both the top spot and the advance tech. Although it may be round 3 before you can afford to grab the advance tech and cover a standard tech.
 
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Jonas Egel
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I played Geodens second time today, and again i started with Round 1 PI, to get that early knowledgeflow going.
But this time i did research in the income track to not get out of credits early on, again.
But again i didnt do so well with my victorypoints and even while i was first in all endscorings and had 44(!)points from research track i was only at 140vp in the end. shake

I think when i play Geodens the next time ill rather start with RL to get a good technologytile and play RI after that.
 
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Robert
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My experience so far has taught me that a round 1 RL is more important for most factions/in most situations than round 1 PI - this seems like a lesson which can be transferred from TM to GP.

Threads about the early-PI topic:
Round 1 Research Lab followed by round 2 Planetary Institute
Round 1 PI, a race discussion
 
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Jon Kern
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Geodens might be the only faction that I would open RL+2M or RL+TS+M and nothing else if I wanted to delay my PI until R2. That said, I wonder what you really gain by doing a lesser opening than PI+TS+2M. You get a tech tile, but you have to either give up 3k or do one of the weaker than standard openings that I listed above.
 
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Jon Kern
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yonek wrote:
I played Geodens second time today, and again i started with Round 1 PI, to get that early knowledgeflow going.
But this time i did research in the income track to not get out of credits early on, again.
But again i didnt do so well with my victorypoints and even while i was first in all endscorings and had 44(!)points from research track i was only at 140vp in the end. shake

I think when i play Geodens the next time ill rather start with RL to get a good technologytile and play RI after that.


I think a score this low signifies one of two scenarios. One, you did not score many points with advance technologies or two, you did not score well with round booster or round bonus tiles. You possibly scored less than you could have by emphasizing technology so heavily as well. The Geodens are a good faction candidate for using QIC actions often as the 2 QIC action often generates them 9-12 points by R4.
 
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David Stahle
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Try an Academy+mine+mine opening. Follow up with round 2 PI+Academy+mine+mine, top of the terraforming track and 2 gained federation tiles. Start round 3 you can get the advanced tech by building a RL if desirable.

Doable even without any leech (but ofc proximity discount on the trading stations).
 
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