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Subject: Daedalus Productions - Lost My Business - Warning to Others rss

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Joe
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For the first time in my long time tenure here at the Geek I am feeling the need to voice my complaint and opinion of a retailer. Mostly I write this as a warning to others who, like me, are tired of poor customer service from those they do business with as well as poor communication.

I feel that many times now when we give someone our money for something we are made to feel like the retailer is doing us a favor by letting us purchase their product, when in fact it is the other way around. It is the retailer that should be thankful to us for supporting them and should be their job to want to earn and retain our business.

On to the real reason for my post:

I have ordered from Daedalus Productions a few times in the past. In fairness I have never really had any problems but my experience has been simple, order a product, receive a product. Overall I love their design, their quality I place at a level just below that of The Broken Token (whom i have also ordered from on multiple occasions).

Most recently an order was placed right after black Friday. This order was intended to be a Christmas present, the items were ordered in more than enough time to receive by the intended date and the website also indicated that this would absolutely happen. As I'm sure you have guessed, Christmas came and went, and my package was never shipped. It is now Jan 2, and after multiple attempts at contact I have received nothing but silence.

For the sake of full disclosure, Daedalus apparently did send out emails to customers who placed orders, wondering whether or not they were for Christmas (in an attempt to prioritize them). This email went to my junk folder so a response of course was not made in time. While I understand this may have solved my issue, it is my opinion that this should never have been necessary to begin with. A product was ordered, you promised a delivery date, you didn't deliver.

What bothers me more than anything is their lack of communication. Multiple attempts have been made to contact them once the e-mail was found (prior to Christmas), and several since. I'm 35, but I honestly don't know if I will ever be able to wrap my head around the concept of a business that will not provide you a phone number so you can have human contact and customer service. To this day not a single email has been answered and no communication has been made (aside from a mass e-mail to their entire customer base saying "we're still working on everyone's stuff"). I understand mistakes happen but I do expect a level of communication about it. I'm tired of companies like this, will no longer support them, and will encourage others to do the same.

TLDR:
Due to a lack of promised delivery time (I still have not yet received my order nor do I have any clue when I might), and an unacceptable absence of communication, Daedalus Productions has now permanently lost my business.

My future purchases will now go to companies like The Broken Token who have served me very well and have had fantastic communication in the face of problems and the normal course of business.
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Jordan Ackerman
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You have every right to feel the way you do.

Keep in mind that the Christmas season is pure insanity for many businesses, but it isn't their doing. Christmas has grown from old traditions of giving gifts to families into this bizarre phenomenon with major global economic impact. Many businesses count on the huge surge in sales at Christmas to make ends meet every year. It is exhausting to keep up with the madness made worse by the stress of the season.

Before you decide to never give the company in question your business again, maybe do some reflection on what is really important during the holidays and see if you can't cut them a little slack. After all, they are all people, too. Just like us, they too want to give nice gifts during the holidays and likely were stressed out about getting it all together in time.

Lastly, check to see if their email going to your spam was because of one of your email settings. If not, it would be kind to let them know that their mail going to your spam mucked things up a bit, which could possibly help customers other than yourself down the road.
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italianamericn wrote:
Daedalus Productions - Lost My Business - Warning to Others

Am I the only one who got #clickbaited into this thinking the poster literally lost their business and livelihood?

And I never heard of D.P.... quick google

http://www.daedalusproductionsinc.com/

they make custom laser cut game inserts.

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Gabe Covert
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I ordered from them at the end of October, and didn't get my inserts for about 18 working days. Their quality is FAR better than anything I've bought from Broken Token, and I wouldn't hesitate to order from them again. When I had a question about my order, I got a fairly prompt response saying they were overwhelmed by Gloomhaven and Terraforming Mars orders, but they'd get to me ASAP.

OP says his email about Christmas rush went into a junk bin. I'm not sure how that's DP's fault? I know that I routinely scan my junk folder if I'm expecting an email.

ninja
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Paul Sauberer
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JeffyJeff wrote:
italianamericn wrote:
Daedalus Productions - Lost My Business - Warning to Others

Am I the only one who got #clickbaited into this thinking the poster literally lost their business and livelihood?

And I never heard of D.P.... quick google

http://www.daedalusproductionsinc.com/

they make custom laser cut game inserts.



I read it literally as the OP wrote it, that Daedalus Productions had lost his business, i.e. he was no longer going to buy anything from them.

As to the company, if you were to do a quick search of the Discussing Retailers forum (there's a button at the top right of the header bar) for "Daedalus Productions," you would have found the following

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1735265/daedalus-produc...

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1282311/has-anyone-done...

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1529527/no-response-dae...

Once you have spent more time here and become more familiar with the common content of the forum, I'm sure that it will be easier for you to merely skip over threads that are of no interest to you (there's a "mark read" button that makes it easy if you are subscribed) and not be forced to click on everything.

YMMV
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italianamericn wrote:
I'm 35, but I honestly don't know if I will ever be able to wrap my head around the concept of a business that will not provide you a phone number so you can have human contact and customer service.


I'm 43, and I'm not defending Daedalus here, as they lost my business a long time ago, but phone sales and support is really tough when you have a small company with a popular product. Should they employ an answering service? Perhaps, but that doesn't really solve the issue either.

Email is enough, but it does require the business to actually answer it.

The difference for the business is huge. Phone ringing is "right now" stress, email responses are something they can plan around and batch.
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CovertDad wrote:
OP says his email about Christmas rush went into a junk bin. I'm not sure how that's DP's fault? I know that I routinely scan my junk folder if I'm expecting an email. ninja


Well, DP certainly contributed to the problem by, instead of writing the OP an individual email which would most likely have gotten through to his inbox, sending one mass email that most likely got caught in most peoples’ spam filter.

I like DP’s designs, but my experience (reinforced by this holiday’s sale/fulfillment meltdown) tells me they lack business acumen. They make pretty inserts, but people thinking about ordering should know they can’t expect much in the way of timely delivery or communication. I have no idea how, given their existing reputation for not being able to keep up with normal order volume, they thought it would be a good idea to run a giant Black Friday sale. I’m sure they’ll lose a fair amount of repeat business, but hopefully they’ll survive, learn and grow better.


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rutherford82 wrote:
You have every right to feel the way you do.

Keep in mind that the Christmas season is pure insanity for many businesses, but it isn't their doing. Christmas has grown from old traditions of giving gifts to families into this bizarre phenomenon with major global economic impact. Many businesses count on the huge surge in sales at Christmas to make ends meet every year. It is exhausting to keep up with the madness made worse by the stress of the season.

Before you decide to never give the company in question your business again, maybe do some reflection on what is really important during the holidays and see if you can't cut them a little slack. After all, they are all people, too. Just like us, they too want to give nice gifts during the holidays and likely were stressed out about getting it all together in time.

Lastly, check to see if their email going to your spam was because of one of your email settings. If not, it would be kind to let them know that their mail going to your spam mucked things up a bit, which could possibly help customers other than yourself down the road.



First, thank you for contributing in a constructive and respectful manner.

I agree with keeping things in perspective as to what is important around the Christmas season, but in my opinion this is a different matter. I feel that I did cut them some slack when they did not respond to my first attempts prior to Christmas. At this point it has been over a month since the date of order with no communication, and at the end of the day that is part of your responsibility as a business.

I didn't demand a certain delivery date, it was clearly posted and offered prior to making my order. And unfortunately, my entire frustration could have been mitigated by simply paying a minute bit of respect to a paying customer and giving me any bit of information. This is the key to it for me, and why I have decided not to do business with them again.

(And thank you for the suggestion, sadly I did check my spam setting but could find nothing on my end as to why it ended up there. I would LOVE to inform Daedalus Productions as to the status of that e-mail [my entire purpose of this post is to be helpful to those who come after me] but again, no communication means not being able to inform them of this either)
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CovertDad wrote:
I ordered from them at the end of October, and didn't get my inserts for about 18 working days. Their quality is FAR better than anything I've bought from Broken Token, and I wouldn't hesitate to order from them again. When I had a question about my order, I got a fairly prompt response saying they were overwhelmed by Gloomhaven and Terraforming Mars orders, but they'd get to me ASAP.

OP says his email about Christmas rush went into a junk bin. I'm not sure how that's DP's fault? I know that I routinely scan my junk folder if I'm expecting an email.

ninja


As I stated in the OP, I feel that it is the fault of Daedalus Productions because no initial email should have been necessary, the terms of the purchase agreement were for a Christmas delivery, and they broke their agreement. But again, the real issue I have is their lack of communication. A simple response would have solved everything but they are either unable or unwilling to provide such a minor request.
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Psauberer wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
italianamericn wrote:
Daedalus Productions - Lost My Business - Warning to Others

Am I the only one who got #clickbaited into this thinking the poster literally lost their business and livelihood?

And I never heard of D.P.... quick google

http://www.daedalusproductionsinc.com/

they make custom laser cut game inserts.



I read it literally as the OP wrote it, that Daedalus Productions had lost his business, i.e. he was no longer going to buy anything from them.

As to the company, if you were to do a quick search of the Discussing Retailers forum (there's a button at the top right of the header bar) for "Daedalus Productions," you would have found the following

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1735265/daedalus-produc...

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1282311/has-anyone-done...

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1529527/no-response-dae...

Once you have spent more time here and become more familiar with the common content of the forum, I'm sure that it will be easier for you to merely skip over threads that are of no interest to you (there's a "mark read" button that makes it easy if you are subscribed) and not be forced to click on everything.

YMMV


I have done my research, but that does not preclude my particular experience from being any less valid. In the posts you linked, the first one has absolutely nothing to do with my experience, it is about someone asking for a discount. Your 2nd and 3rd linked posts are similar to my complaint, but 3 and 1 year old respectively, and only succeed in further validating my opinion of their poor customer service as well as establishing a history of it.

Your post comes across as ultimately unhelpful and condescending. May I ask, if not this, then what is it's purpose?

Is not the "Discussing Retailers" section of the forum the place for us to post our individual experiences discussing different retailers?
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jmathias wrote:
italianamericn wrote:
I'm 35, but I honestly don't know if I will ever be able to wrap my head around the concept of a business that will not provide you a phone number so you can have human contact and customer service.


I'm 43, and I'm not defending Daedalus here, as they lost my business a long time ago, but phone sales and support is really tough when you have a small company with a popular product. Should they employ an answering service? Perhaps, but that doesn't really solve the issue either.

Email is enough, but it does require the business to actually answer it.

The difference for the business is huge. Phone ringing is "right now" stress, email responses are something they can plan around and batch.



I absolutely agree, I'm not mad or demanding they have anything like that. Like most i'm sure, I've gotten used to this being the new "norm"... but it still doesn't mean I like or agree with it! Simply voicing my frustration in general on that point I guess.
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The0ry wrote:
CovertDad wrote:
OP says his email about Christmas rush went into a junk bin. I'm not sure how that's DP's fault? I know that I routinely scan my junk folder if I'm expecting an email. ninja


Well, DP certainly contributed to the problem by, instead of writing the OP an individual email which would most likely have gotten through to his inbox, sending one mass email that most likely got caught in most peoples’ spam filter.

I like DP’s designs, but my experience (reinforced by this holiday’s sale/fulfillment meltdown) tells me they lack business acumen. They make pretty inserts, but people thinking about ordering should know they can’t expect much in the way of timely delivery or communication. I have no idea how, given their existing reputation for not being able to keep up with normal order volume, they thought it would be a good idea to run a giant Black Friday sale. I’m sure they’ll lose a fair amount of repeat business, but hopefully they’ll survive, learn and grow better.




A big black Friday sale was a major mistake on their part (some respect given for shutting down their web store when they did). That's something I hadn't even considered at the time of my post.
I agree, I hope they do survive and I'm fairly certain they will. I try not to wish anyone bad. Hopefully the loss of my business and that of whatever others agree will be the repercussion they need to fix their mistakes and grow beyond these minor details that are hindering them.
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italianamericn wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
italianamericn wrote:
Daedalus Productions - Lost My Business - Warning to Others

Am I the only one who got #clickbaited into this thinking the poster literally lost their business and livelihood?

And I never heard of D.P.... quick google

http://www.daedalusproductionsinc.com/

they make custom laser cut game inserts.



I read it literally as the OP wrote it, that Daedalus Productions had lost his business, i.e. he was no longer going to buy anything from them.

As to the company, if you were to do a quick search of the Discussing Retailers forum (there's a button at the top right of the header bar) for "Daedalus Productions," you would have found the following

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1735265/daedalus-produc...

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1282311/has-anyone-done...

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1529527/no-response-dae...

Once you have spent more time here and become more familiar with the common content of the forum, I'm sure that it will be easier for you to merely skip over threads that are of no interest to you (there's a "mark read" button that makes it easy if you are subscribed) and not be forced to click on everything.

YMMV


I have done my research, but that does not preclude my particular experience from being any less valid. In the posts you linked, the first one has absolutely nothing to do with my experience, it is about someone asking for a discount. Your 2nd and 3rd linked posts are similar to my complaint, but 3 and 1 year old respectively, and only succeed in further validating my opinion of their poor customer service as well as establishing a history of it.

Your post comes across as ultimately unhelpful and condescending. May I ask, if not this, then what is it's purpose?

Is not the "Discussing Retailers" section of the forum the place for us to post our individual experiences discussing different retailers?


I believe Paul was responding to JeffyJeff, not you. Then again, I don't see how Paul thinks JeffyJeff doesn't spend much time here.
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milgate wrote:

I believe Paul was responding to JeffyJeff, not you. Then again, I don't see how Paul thinks JeffyJeff doesn't spend much time here.


I think that was the sarcasm and irony baked into the word choice and delivery.

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darthhugo wrote:
milgate wrote:

I believe Paul was responding to JeffyJeff, not you. Then again, I don't see how Paul thinks JeffyJeff doesn't spend much time here.


I think that was the sarcasm and irony baked into the word choice and delivery.



YMMV
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IMO the retailer should have said "Please let us know if you do NOT need your order delivered by Christmas. Otherwise we will assume that you do and ship your order as soon as possible."

The retailer should not have said "Please let us know if you need your order delivered by Christmas. Otherwise we will assume that you do not."

Tom
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Why are you not just disputing the charge and getting your money back from your credit card for non-delivery?
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mregamr wrote:


The retailer should not have said "Please let us know if you need your order delivered by Christmas. Otherwise we will assume that you do not."

Tom


Ahh, but this is classic DP. Backwards communications, poor to zero response to paid customers, etc. They started with a craptastic Kickstarter and never learned or, from my experience, even cared about doing business right.

To the OP, just dispute the charge and get your money back. Put an end to this while you still can... There are lots of other vendors in this space.



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This company is famous for how badly they do business. Unfortunately this is nothing new.
 
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@ Bill Gates
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Yup, I was wrong and have made an apology for my misunderstanding on that point. Thank you for helping bring that to light.
 
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I dunno - when I first got the email asking me to put my order to the back of the line because of the rush of Christmas orders that they received, I was initially a little peeved. In my head I thought, "I kind of assumed the massive black friday sale was to sell product that had already been made and was just kind of sitting around--hence the sale." But then I paused and just decided that I could wait, I would give my insert for a birthday instead. I've met Ben before a few times and he's a really nice guy. I think his business is just going through a lot of growing pains. I love his products, but I can understand why you feel you can no longer support them.

At the same time, I don't think its fair to say there has been a complete absence of communication. The email that went to your spam folder explained, quite sincere-sounding to me, that they had experienced a massive and unexpected amount of orders after the sale but were running all of their equipment 24 hours per day to get all of the product from the sale out of the door. You may want to check your spam folder again because he has also sent a second email a few days ago thanking us for our patience with a few more details.

So to be clear, I guess I understand your frustration but I'm not sure what you would have had them do differently. With a massive and unexpected wave of orders - how else would you have them communicate with a bunch of people all at once? I mean it is unfortunate that the email didn't get to you due to your spam folder, but I'm not sure what exactly you would have had them do differently.

You say in the OP that you just feel that delivery should have gone forward when it was guaranteed without communication(I don't know where you're getting that - I've never gotten a guarantee on a deadline and I have purchased from them many times). I guess, especially at this time of year, I would rather cut a small business some slack that not. All that said, I get why you feel the way you do - I'm not trying to convince you, just trying to explain why I feel differently, personally.

I personally wouldn't go for a chargeback here - there was another email sent just six days ago explaining the situation and asking for allowing him some time to work through a massive backlog of emails. I'm sure he'll make it right and I'm not sure that a chargeback is really the best way to handle this type of issue (again you can feel free to do whatever you want, but as someone who has worked for a smaller business I know that chargebacks have ramifications that consumers do not see and aren't really intended for a merchant that is attempting to communicate and remedy the situation). In the end, we're not talking about Amazon here, we're talking about a business with a single-digit number of employees that had a massive, unexpected increase in business over a busy season.
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Same boat - except I saw the email and asked for my order to not be moved to the back of the line and received it immediately after Christmas.

I like the insert (the staining makes it look really nice), but I think the Broken Token or Go7 inserts are overall better. Better fit (DP was the first insert I had to actually use glue), anyway, and i had a few points where the facing of the wood chipped as I punched it.

On another negative: the assembly instructions were the worst of the three brands I've assembled. I'm still not clear on where some parts go (I got the Eclipse complete insert, and if anyone can explain how the ship parts are supposed to be organized, that'd be excellent.)
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rutherford82 wrote:
You have every right to feel the way you do.

Keep in mind that the Christmas season is pure insanity for many businesses, but it isn't their doing. Christmas has grown from old traditions of giving gifts to families into this bizarre phenomenon with major global economic impact. Many businesses count on the huge surge in sales at Christmas to make ends meet every year. It is exhausting to keep up with the madness made worse by the stress of the season.

Before you decide to never give the company in question your business again, maybe do some reflection on what is really important during the holidays and see if you can't cut them a little slack. After all, they are all people, too. Just like us, they too want to give nice gifts during the holidays and likely were stressed out about getting it all together in time.

Lastly, check to see if their email going to your spam was because of one of your email settings. If not, it would be kind to let them know that their mail going to your spam mucked things up a bit, which could possibly help customers other than yourself down the road.


I have all empathy for small businesses, it's what makes America great - the relative ease to start your own business unparalleled in the world.

That said, any business that does not make customer service (ie, communication) a top priority will soon not be in business. I fired my lawn care service because they went a month not responding to me. When I sent an email firing them, I got back an email "Why, what's wrong?". It took me firing them for them to finally respond to me. Sorry, a day late and a dollar short.
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texascpa wrote:
I fired my lawn care service because they went a month not responding to me. When I sent an email firing them, I got back an email "Why, what's wrong?". It took me firing them for them to finally respond to me. Sorry, a day late and a dollar short.


What if you found out they'd actually attempted to communicate with you, twice, during that month and it had somehow not come through?
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The OP stated he repeatedly sent emails to the company and they all went unanswered. The mass mails don't excuse that.
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