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Subject: Practice starting hand selection rss

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kaha preclo
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I just wonder whether there is a website or an app that let you randomly draw 10 cards and 2 corporations.

I would like to teach my friend about the strategy of starting hand selection. It is just not as easy to do when I have to shuffle 200 cards all the time.

I heard I could do this on Tabletop Simulator but I don't have that.
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Daily Grind
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why do you need to shuffle? Draw 10, practice, draw the next 10. It's still random.
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I AM Not A Number
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cafin8d wrote:
why do you need to shuffle? Draw 10, practice, draw the next 10. It's still random.

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Rando Thomas
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Would you mind to share some of thoughts about your decission, wich cards and how many you draw?
 
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Barry Setser
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Can do an initial discourse, though am no expert:

1) Try to keep your choices down to 4 cards or 5 tops. If you buy more than that, you won't have any money to actually get many into play.

2) Go ahead and ignore cards you will not get into play any time soon for whatever reason - way too expensive, requirements you wont see any time soon (must be 0 degrees, requires 3 Oceans for example).

3) Look at your two corps to see if there's any synergy with the 10 cards you drew. For example - Helion goes great with any cheap heat bumps. Ecoline (think that's the plant corp) goes well with cheap plant production cards.

4) Some corps are easy to play (Helion again for example) and may sway your choice that way, to the point you may just take that corp anyways

That's a good starting place without having cards in front of me to provide better examples
 
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AJ Cooper
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bsets wrote:
Can do an initial discourse, though am no expert:

1) Try to keep your choices down to 4 cards or 5 tops. If you buy more than that, you won't have any money to actually get many into play.

2) Go ahead and ignore cards you will not get into play any time soon for whatever reason - way too expensive, requirements you wont see any time soon (must be 0 degrees, requires 3 Oceans for example).

3) Look at your two corps to see if there's any synergy with the 10 cards you drew. For example - Helion goes great with any cheap heat bumps. Ecoline (think that's the plant corp) goes well with cheap plant production cards.

4) Some corps are easy to play (Helion again for example) and may sway your choice that way, to the point you may just take that corp anyways

That's a good starting place without having cards in front of me to provide better examples

I think it is perfectly fine, and often a good idea, to keep cards with long term prospects. Three oceans in particular isn't that big a deal. And you will have a lot more money late in the game, it is nice to have some cards to spend it on. Personally, I have found myself wishing that there were a few more expensive endgame-type cards in the deck for me to buy along the way.

As for Helion, IMO many players use it unwisely, spending heat as money indiscriminately throughout the game. Heat is worth more than money, so you take a small loss every time you do it, which adds up over time. The ability is best used sparingly when that 1 or 2 extra MC is needed to get something important done right now. The real benefit comes in the endgame after the temperature is maxed out - no heat cubes go to waste. (And even then some discretion may be needed if the thermalist award has been funded.)
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Pedro Sequeira
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it could be intesresting to run a few polls with a set of 2corps + 10 cards where people vote on which corp + cards they would keep

maybe using the card list with a way to randomize the draw, or even someone drawing from a deck and posting a picture

using the sets in this PBF game also save some time

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1901485/terraforming-mars-p...
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AJ Cooper
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Songok wrote:
it could be intesresting to run a few polls with a set of 2corps + 10 cards where people vote on which corp + cards they would keep

Actually this is a pretty cool idea.
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Wim van Gruisen
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Talmanes wrote:
I think it is perfectly fine, and often a good idea, to keep cards with long term prospects.

I agree. Especially if you have the means to boost that particular requirement fast, so that you'll have more rounds to profit from such a card after you played it.

If you play Ecoline and have one or two cards in hand that boost plant production, you should keep that VP generating card that you can only play at 10 oxygen; you have the means to get to that point quickly. Why should you depend on a random draw of such a card when oxygen level is at eight or nine percent? Only because you wanted to save M€3 at the start? Consider then whether those M€3 give you more VP in the end than buying this card early.
And that depends on how much money you'll have in the first two or three rounds to play the cards that you kept, that you absolutely want to play in the opening phase of the game.
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Marc Espie
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Whymme wrote:

If you play Ecoline and have one or two cards in hand that boost plant production, you should keep that VP generating card that you can only play at 10 oxygen; you have the means to get to that point quickly.


define "quickly". 10 oxygen is rather far away. Just because you have ecoline doesn't mean you will get there quickly.

In solo, it's definitely never the case, the engine takes a while to rev up.

In multiplayer, if somebody is playing ecoline, you generally do not want to have a plant strategy, unless you're more solid than they are. Asteroids are going to come ecoline's way. Plant production diminishing projects as well. There's a high chance ecoline will be completely alone doing plants until the temperature reaches -6 or so...
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maxyoupi wrote:
In multiplayer, if somebody is playing ecoline, you generally do not want to have a plant strategy, unless you're more solid than they are.

Why not? I would think it would be good to take some of the oxygen track points away from Ecoline.
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Talmanes wrote:
maxyoupi wrote:
In multiplayer, if somebody is playing ecoline, you generally do not want to have a plant strategy, unless you're more solid than they are.

Why not? I would think it would be good to take some of the oxygen track points away from Ecoline.


You won't catch up to ecoline by laying down plants unless you get really lucky. It's better to go the power route and use those cards to bump up oxygen. Then since you're going with power you have more options to lay down cities with cards to take points from their forests.
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Mimikyu wrote:
Talmanes wrote:
maxyoupi wrote:
In multiplayer, if somebody is playing ecoline, you generally do not want to have a plant strategy, unless you're more solid than they are.

Why not? I would think it would be good to take some of the oxygen track points away from Ecoline.


You won't catch up to ecoline by laying down plants unless you get really lucky. It's better to go the power route and use those cards to bump up oxygen. Then since you're going with power you have more options to lay down cities with cards to take points from their forests.


This sounds like a fallacy to me. Just because someone can utilize a strategy better than you, doesn't mean you should simply not pursue it. Especially so if you're drafting -- you should be taking as many plant production cards away from the Ecoline player as possible and using them yourself.
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Mimikyu wrote:
Talmanes wrote:
maxyoupi wrote:
In multiplayer, if somebody is playing ecoline, you generally do not want to have a plant strategy, unless you're more solid than they are.

Why not? I would think it would be good to take some of the oxygen track points away from Ecoline.


You won't catch up to ecoline by laying down plants unless you get really lucky. It's better to go the power route and use those cards to bump up oxygen. Then since you're going with power you have more options to lay down cities with cards to take points from their forests.

I don't believe that I have to "catch up" to Ecoline, as if they were automatically winning from the start. But I do agree about using city placements to hinder their expansion.
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G K
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neonBarnacle wrote:
Mimikyu wrote:
Talmanes wrote:
maxyoupi wrote:
In multiplayer, if somebody is playing ecoline, you generally do not want to have a plant strategy, unless you're more solid than they are.

Why not? I would think it would be good to take some of the oxygen track points away from Ecoline.


You won't catch up to ecoline by laying down plants unless you get really lucky. It's better to go the power route and use those cards to bump up oxygen. Then since you're going with power you have more options to lay down cities with cards to take points from their forests.


This sounds like a fallacy to me. Just because someone can utilize a strategy better than you, doesn't mean you should simply not pursue it. Especially so if you're drafting -- you should be taking as many plant production cards away from the Ecoline player as possible and using them yourself.


And if Ecoline's in the game, you can add plant production and they'll usually provide some cover from plant removal.

While the energy to O2 to city strategy may only more effective than their plants if you can get cheapish energy, one of the energy -> O2 cards, and one or two energy production to city cards into your hand at the right times.

Anyway, while there's disagreement on how to do it, a lot of players will work to "help" Ecoline raise the oxygen if they can. So, yes Ecoline with good early plant cards can be a little looser in keeping cards with O2 requirements. But it's still easy to get stung on cards with oxygen minimums - Decomposers at 3% may still be my only sure buy in the category as Ecoline. And if you can afford the 3MC and the wait, Herbivores should get Ecoline over 3VP most of the time.
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Pedro Sequeira
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Check the polls here:

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/27873388#27873388

(moved to strategy)

ps: against ecoline i would go for O2 increasing cards (while it is not maxed) and save some nice cities cards to place next to greeneries (or just use std projects if i could get close to 2/3 greens
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Wim van Gruisen
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maxyoupi wrote:
Whymme wrote:

If you play Ecoline and have one or two cards in hand that boost plant production, you should keep that VP generating card that you can only play at 10 oxygen; you have the means to get to that point quickly.


define "quickly". 10 oxygen is rather far away. Just because you have ecoline doesn't mean you will get there quickly.

‘Quickly’ is defined here as: well before the other tracks run out, so that you can profit more turns from the VP-generating card.

And Ecoline was just an example - don’t focus on that particular card. The idea is that it may be worth it to keep a card that you cannot play right away because of requirements, if you think that your other cards can make you meet that requirement relatively quickly (see definition above), so that you gave more rounds to profit from it.
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