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Vampire: The Eternal Struggle» Forums » General

Subject: ReVamping VTES rss

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Jefferson Krogh
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San Leandro
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I could get my friends to deal with all of the issues you raise, if only the game didn't take 2-3 hours at least. Create an alternate trigger to end game after about an hour, and then I'd get to play a lot more...
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Alex C
Argentina
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In order of priority:

-Simply the intercept/combat mechanic. The Battletech CCG seems to me like the ideal direction in which Garfield evolved the concepts of intercept/stealth and the combat dinamics.

-implement stricter deck-building limitations such as a hard limit of copies per deck.

-Simplify card types. Loose the action modifier cards, the triffles, the events, the allies/equipment distinctions, etc.

-Go back to the Camarilla 7 and grow slowly if we need to add more clans & disciplines. Sure, someone is going to want to play a Salubri with Obeah or a True Brujah or something like that at some point, but let's keep it simple for a while...
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Silver Robert
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Sunnyvale
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Hold onto your seats, things are about to get crazy:

- remove stealth/cept, range and presses. Any time two players throw cards at each other until one runs out are simply not fun. Keep unblockable actions or block cancelling cards. Rework the combat cards balance to compensate for the lack of range and presses.

- remove unnecessary mechanisms. Events, imbued, red list, out-of-turn, anarch, trifle etc. introduce too many rules to the game for little payoff.

- reduce the number of votes and put a limit (time? only with certain players?) on deal making during political actions. Waiting for 5 minutes for other players to come to terms on a vote which doesn't influence you in any way only to see someone play Delayed Tactics on it is just grueling.

- remove crypt groups.

- speed up the game by reducing the number of cards that increase pool and removing the ability to influence from an uncontrolled vampire back to pool

- remove contesting. Use a simpler mechanism (bid?).

- remove allies. Simulate their effects using other types of cards.

- make pricing consistent. If a master card has a cost, it's paid in pool, other cards are always paid in blood.

- add more flavor text to cards. No idea why they stopped doing this.

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Alex C
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Solid suggestions all around. It's amusing to see that everyone pretty much acknowledges the intercept/combat mechanics are the game's weakest point. My suggestion to fix this would be to use the system Garfield used in the Battletech CCG. Every unit/minion has a speed rating (slow/med/fast) and the opponent can only intercept if he matches or exceeds your speed. It's all simply referenced in the cards and takes a nanosecond to resolve. Combat has no maneuvers, ranges or presses, just play some action cards if you want and then resolve numbers. Done.



silverrobert wrote:
- remove unnecessary mechanisms. Events, imbued, red list, out-of-turn, anarch, trifle etc. introduce too many rules to the game for little payoff.


I mentioned this as well but to be fair we are getting into late-life rules bloat here. Not exactly base mechanics.

silverrobert wrote:

- remove contesting. Use a simpler mechanism (bid?).


Completely forgot about this. Absolutely agree. Uniqueness should be handled the way every other ccg handled it: you play it first, it's yours. Done.
If you want to get fiddly you could say you can attack locations as a Direct action to burn them. But that's about it.

Also if we are going for a wishlist scenario the game has got to absolutely get rid of the arcane iconography it uses. It's just obnoxious and a major roadblock for introducing the game to just about anyone. This game is only second to Race for the Galaxy in terms of head-scratching iconography deciphering and the changes never helped (what did the drop with the white background mean? Was that the same as the red drop they introduced later? or was it the one with the skull thingy? *rolleyes*)
 
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Geoff C
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Nice icons.

The rest of you guys are nuts.
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Daniel Galvan
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Hi new player here!

Sorry if my suggestions are a bit crazy :S, but this comes from playing just a few games 2-3 player count

One of the mayor drawbacks that is holding back VTES in my playgroup is the length, player elimination and the complicated combat.

Things to change

1) I have played several times without maneuvers or presses and it was fun (the basic game from the VTES rulebook), although I really like the maneuver mechanic (more for the thematic element it brings than for the implementation).

2) For player elimination, I have been brainstorming on stealing some ideas from other boardgames like Adrenaline, Samurai Sword, Heck even using a King of the Hill format or other crazy stuff like treasures, secret missions, or strongholds


3) WAY TOO MUCH ICONOGRAPHY!

4) the edge doesn't seem to impactful, more stuff to do with a the edge is a big plus on my part.

Stuff to keep

1) predator / prey concept is simply amazing

2) Voting is cool and interactive

3) vampire lore is cool , don't mind if they change from VtM to VtR. Actually a change to VtR will be nice from what I read

Note: if it Do changes to VtR I don't care if they drop the basic/advance discipline concept

ArmorClassZero wrote:
@silverrobert:

* I think combat could be more exciting if players could more readily intervene / foil / aid / hinder other players during the combat.

* I think 'pool' could be used in all instances of paying costs and be the sole resource of the game. Vampires would pay pool which is thematically blood, but also money, favors, assets, etc.


Great Ideas! I should use some of the suggestions in this thread as "house rules" or variants.

silverrobert wrote:

- add more flavor text to cards. No idea why they stopped doing this.


ABSOLUTELY! The Flavor and lore is incredible. It's what got me into the game! thumbsup

I haven't used the variants listed on the rulebook meant to speed up play (vampires bleed and strength is half their capacity plus any modifiers) so I can't comment on those.

As a side note: I have seen this same post in several places... suspicious ninja

edit: added more crazy winning conditions
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David Boeren
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Marietta
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VTES has some brilliant stuff like Predator/Prey and your resource also being your life, but it also needs substantial streamlining to bring it in line with modern expectations.

Additionally, I don't think it would fly as a re-release without some sort of solid 2-player rules. I understand that some mechanics like voting probably just won't work in 2p but I would be fine with the idea of having my multi-player decks and my 2p decks separately.
 
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Alex C
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ArmorClassZero wrote:
(I asked what you guys would change, if anything, but since most people implied "nothing" . . .


I was under the impression we all had a lot of changes in mind . Combat/intercept/stealth mechanics being chief among the suggestions.
 
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