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1836jr» Forums » Rules

Subject: Two-Player Certificate Limit for1856 Rules rss

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For the 1856 rule set for 1836jr, is there a certificate limit chart for phases 5 and 6 which should be used for the two-player game? The 1856 rulebook only has listings for 3 players and above and I didn't see any suggested replacement in the 1836jr files.

 
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Marcin Olempa
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I have got a reply from the author:
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It has been quite a long time since I pondered this issue, the more so that neither of the “1836Jr” games were ever intended as serious products! 😊

However, your serious question demands a serious response, so here’s my thinking.

In the “regular” 1856 game, where there are as many as 11 normal companies plus the CGR, there is considerable impact to the gameplay from how many are left standing after the formation of the CGR. In 1836Jr-56, where at most six regular companies can enter play before CGR/SS formation, much less so.

In 1856, the normative expectation is for four companies to go into the CGR as shown by the fact that the cert limits for eight total post-CGR companies track to the cert limits for the earlier part of the game. So we should follow this thinking in 1836Jr-56.

At the point where the CGR/SS forms in 1836Jr-56, the 2-trains will have fallen off thanks to the 4-trains, and—crucially—the per-company train limit will be two as the 5-trains must perforce have emerged prior to the availability of the 6-trains. So at this point the companies that are actually running will own ( 3t x 4 + 4t x 3 + 5t x 2 = ) 9 trains total. Since the train limit is two, perforce this requires at least 5 of 6 regular companies to be operating…the more so since a train slot is needed to buy the first 6-train.

Further, it is effectively impossible for more than two companies to go into the CGR/SS as, at this point, with a train limit of two, the four 3-trains can be concentrated on at most two companies.

I conclude from this “back-of-the-envelope” exercise that there is (and never was) any need to adjust the cert limits. I regret the omission! 😊

Very respectfully,
David
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Sorry if I'm missing something, but this answer doesn't actually seem to address the cert. limits for the two-player game, no? Instead, it just says that for the three- or four-player game, using the original 1856 cert. limits is fine.
 
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Quote:
Further, it is effectively impossible for more than two companies to go into the CGR/SS as, at this point, with a train limit of two, the four 3-trains can be concentrated on at most two companies.


I also don't understand this claim. Why does the concentration of 3-trains matter regarding their absorbtion into the government railway? Companies are just absorbed when they can't pay off their government loans; I don't see what this has to do with what trains they own.

 
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James Pearce
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We came across the same issue. Marcin, thanks for following up, though, I agree with first last that there is still some confusion after the response.

My feeling is that the increase/decrease in certificate limits is quite important for the current of the game. The 1856 design notes state the following:

Quote:
The emphasis in this game is the fight to keep your company out of the Canadian Government Railways. The rules limiting how capital is paid to the company, along with generous Government loans make this a chancy proposition. The loans are easy to assume and often necessary, but they must be repaid and all players must plan ahead or risk losing their companies.


However, in 1836Jr-56 there is a substantial incentive to allow companies to be absorbed into the SS due to it's higher token limit, higher train limit and the Paris and the channel port locations increasing revenue for each station.

The focus of my play has been on 2 and 3 player. Due to the lower number of total companies than 1856, we found the base 1856 table to be insufficient. David's point that there would need to be at least 5 companies remaining due to the number of trains required to progress to phase 5 is a good one to note, but we have had as few as 2 companies remaining when the dust settled after the SS formation in 2 player game (including the SS).

We've been using a pretty simple companies remaining *~4 *~2.6 and *~2 for the our games, it has nicely tightened up the certificates after the switch. With 2 remaining companies you have had to merge at least 3 companies with the SS (1 potentially closing earlier in the game), resulting in 28 certificates remaining in the game with the 5% certificates provided from the SS. I think the 2 company certificate limit needs to be slightly higher for this reason, but haven't had a chance to test much yet. The table below is what we've used:

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Appreciate the input! How are you liking 1836Jr? We've only played the 1830 rules version so far, but really enjoy it
 
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James Pearce
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We've been playing the 56 variant. I was looking for a 1856 style game that might be good with 2 so I could play with my wife. I enjoy the tight map. I find the limitation on train purchases to be interesting, but creates a very slow build up at 2 player. There are some things to explore there with timing and when to open new companies. Overall, looking forward to playing more.
 
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Yes, I've thought about changing the rules so that each corporation can buy two trains from the bank per OR rather than one, just to speed it up a little.
 
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