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Subject: 2p Class Difficulty (mile spoilers) rss

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Zachary Homrighaus
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Played about 30 hrs of Gloomhaven between Christmas and New Years over the course of 2.5 days. We started from scratch and played through about 7-8 scenarios losing maybe 4-5 times for a total of 12-13 scenarios. We played at normal difficulty with Tinkerer and Spellweaver starting with the suggested gear.

Not wanting to spoil too much for myself, I'm wondering if people have thoughts on this pairing. After reading through a few other threads it seems that Tinkerer is meant to be a support class and in this pairing, he was definitely our damage dealer. I played as the Spellweaver and really struggled to make my deck last until the end of scenarios. For a few scenarios, my invisibility cloak and big movement were really helpful
Spoiler (click to reveal)
(suck it, Imps!)
but more often, I found that I relied on good modifier draws to really contribute to killing monsters. The Tinkerer has a lot of AoE attacks and a few big damage options he can deploy, but we had to be very careful about when to use them.

There was one scenario where
Spoiler (click to reveal)
we both had to accomplish a goal and then get out to a certain exit. We failed that due to my deck running dry... and that was with being able to play my big movement card twice!


Basically just wondering if we made a poor decision with our starting party. We eventually got to the point where we learned how to manage our decks and had decent success in most scenarios... but the Spellweaver was usually exhausted a few rounds before the end of the scenario no matter what.
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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I don't think you have a horrible pairing, but it sounds like you could benefit from some Spellweaver strategy articles. In our 2p game, we played the Tinkerer the same way.
 
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(つ✧ω✧)つ /(◕ᆺ◕)\
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i played with Cragheart and Spellweaver, 9 games in and Spellweaver only survived till the end in 1 game.

she normally lasts until helping to open the door to the last room (with her high movement) and then dealing one (or at most 2) turns of damage (she does hit hard too, esp with goggles, +1 attack potion, and one of the persistent effect cards that gives +2 to attack if that one still remains) to soften the monsters enough for cragheart to clear the floor.

good thing that she still get to keep all her XP, gold, and perks as long as the scenario is completed successfully so there isn't much complaint from the player so far
 
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David Debien
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Our spellweaver is now retired, but that character pretty much out lasted every other character by

Spoiler (click to reveal)
slow playing loss cards and then using her recover ability to get them all back once. This makes the spellweaver, IMO one of the the least likely to run out of cards.


The Spellweaver was paired with my Brute however so the low HP of the Spellweaver wasnt usually an issue with all the mobs keying on my Brute.
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Zachary Homrighaus
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ehui wrote:
i played with Cragheart and Spellweaver, 9 games in and Spellweaver only survived till the end in 1 game.

she normally lasts until helping to open the door to the last room (with her high movement) and then dealing one (or at most 2) turns of damage (she does hit hard too, esp with goggles, +1 attack potion, and one of the persistent effect cards that gives +2 to attack if that one still remains) to soften the monsters enough for cragheart to clear the floor.

good thing that she still get to keep all her XP, gold, and perks as long as the scenario is completed successfully so there isn't much complaint from the player so far


Yeah, that was mostly our experience. We were still winning each scenario (sometimes on the 2nd try once we knew how the rooms were laid out), but even knowing exactly what to expect, it was hard to make the deck last the whole time. I found when I was just playing my non-lost card options, I wasn't really contributing much to the effort... doing 2 damage + modifier on a single ranged attack. Tinkerer doesn't throw many elements into the air, so I rarely got to trigger the +1 effects... and if I was producing elements it was because I was playing loss cards (which is counter to the whole strategy of keeping your deck around)... so it was a push/pull the whole time.

In a way I think the match up with Tinkerer was perhaps better than other matchups because
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Tinkerer could help me pull back a few discards throughout each scenario...
without that and
Spoiler (click to reveal)
a Stamina potion
, I'd have been dead 1/2 way through.
 
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Zachary Homrighaus
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Yeah, if you almost never play a loss card, you can last a really long time... but the issue is you aren't contributing much to the effort. We felt like Spellweaver would have been much better with this sort of play style in a larger party... but with just one other player, I couldn't afford to just hang around in the background occasionally healing and trying to pick off someone for their last 2-3 HP... I had to play a much larger role in the overall tactics... maybe with a tank, I could have just sat in the wings and picked people off and healed, but with Tinkerer who seems to be a ranged/support class themselves, it was an odd pairing.

Anyway, I'm not saying anyone is wrong here and claiming I'm right... I'll certainly give the Spellweaver strategy article a read... just felt like an odd and situational pairing and maybe not recommended for a 2 person party.

That said, there was one scenario we played that was really a cake-walk with 2 ranged guys...
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Forget the name of it, but it's the one where you go to the Inox base and fight the 2 Living Corpses who walk through the book shelves... super easy to just kite those guys until they were dead.
 
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Jeroen
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I love to discuss strategy, especially on classes I have actually played. But usually, people never really detail what abilities (etc) they used in the first place, so it's a bit hard to provide advice. Let's address the two issues you do mention:

One, your big move (Ride the wind). That's a Loss that does not deal any damage, so why did you keep it if you were lacking damage?

Secondly, you suggest a shortage of infused elements. Your party can use 6 AoE's that provide one, cards you should always use (and you have more that you might not use). On top of that, the Tink's Toxic Bolt is a great Discard,so he'll play it 2-4 times per scenario. At lvl 2, you should pick up Flashing Burst, for an element on a Discard. After you've gained the +2 ice/fire perks, you should've been fine.

Still, the pairing might be a bit odd since you are both ranged and cannot deal high single-target damage.
More importantly, these two characters can last the longest out of the 6 starter classes. At the same time, they both need their Loss abilities to really make a splash. This means you (you and your Tinkerer buddy) need to make a choice on how to approach each scenario.
You could go all out on damage (with Crackling Air) while the Tink provides support. Or you could both play slow and steady, with your Summon and the Tinkerer's CC.
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Zachary Homrighaus
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Charian wrote:
I love to discuss strategy, especially on classes I have actually played. But usually, people never really detail what abilities (etc) they used in the first place, so it's a bit hard to provide advice. Let's address the two issues you do mention:

One, your big move (Ride the wind). That's a Loss that does not deal any damage, so why did you keep it if you were lacking damage?

Secondly, you suggest a shortage of infused elements. Your party can use 6 AoE's that provide one, cards you should always use (and you have more that you might not use). On top of that, the Tink's Toxic Bolt is a great Discard,so he'll play it 2-4 times per scenario. At lvl 2, you should pick up Flashing Burst, for an element on a Discard. After you've gained the +2 ice/fire perks, you should've been fine.

Still, the pairing might be a bit odd since you are both ranged and cannot deal high single-target damage.
More importantly, these two characters can last the longest out of the 6 starter classes. At the same time, they both need their Loss abilities to really make a splash. This means you (you and your Tinkerer buddy) need to make a choice on how to approach each scenario.
You could go all out on damage (with Crackling Air) while the Tink provides support. Or you could both play slow and steady, with your Summon and the Tinkerer's CC.


Since my buddy owns the game, I can't pull out the cards to share what hand I was using near the end... but yes, the long movement card only was included for scenarios that had lots of ground to cover and often I only used it after failing a scenario where it became clear we needed a way to access far away rooms, chests, etc.

I haven't played other pairings aside from a quick learning game, so I don't know how they perform under the same circumstances, but I definitely would agree that Tinkerer had a lot of cards left when I was exhausting myself. As I mentioned, we usually won the scenarios even if it required my partner to kill off the last few monsters for the win. I'd be curious to see how Spellweaver worked with a tank or other damage dealer... unfortunately, with two ranged guys, it took us longer to deal with threats and clear rooms... so even if we had the ability to keep decks longer than other classes, we spent more time killing monsters so it kind of evened out.

The other downside for me was that after the first few scenarios, I almost completely stopped looting... I just didn't have time to mess around. Every single action was driven by trying to push through the rooms as quickly as possible without exception knowing that I was going to run out of cards.

One thing I should have mentioned up top is that I really loved my experience with Gloomhaven. I'm not being critical of the design or crying foul. I just wanted to see if we maybe gave ourselves a tough road to hoe with our class choices in a 2 player campaign.
 
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Jeroen
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zjhomrighaus wrote:
I'd be curious to see how Spellweaver worked with a tank or other damage dealer... unfortunately, with two ranged guys, it took us longer to deal with threats and clear rooms... so even if we had the ability to keep decks longer than other classes, we spent more time killing monsters so it kind of evened out.

The other downside for me was that after the first few scenarios, I almost completely stopped looting... I just didn't have time to mess around. Every single action was driven by trying to push through the rooms as quickly as possible without exception knowing that I was going to run out of cards.

One thing I should have mentioned up top is that I really loved my experience with Gloomhaven. I'm not being critical of the design or crying foul. I just wanted to see if we maybe gave ourselves a tough road to hoe with our class choices in a 2 player campaign.


Apart from my musings above, the main 'problem' with your pairing is the Tinkerer's relative weakness in 2p. Actually, the synergy between the 2 characters is pretty good. The Spellweaver/Cragheart combo is (one of) the strongest starting duo's and they are both ranged as well.
Looting is not that important so overall, if every scenario was tense and you've enjoyed yourself...I'd say you've done pretty great
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tibbles von tibbleton
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I haven’t tried 2p yet, but I found my Spellweaver tended to do better and last longer with the summon and removing crackling air. Yeah, it’s a shame to miss out on hitting everything in a room for 5+ damage each, but the summon gives you high consistent damage without playing further loss cards. Between it and your own shots, that’s like 5-6 damage to 1 target per turn which is as good as any melee. And you’re not reliant on Air which if I recall you can only produce early on that loss movement card.
 
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Andrew Gross
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I'm playing a Spellweaver in a 2p campaign with a Mindthief. We've played every scenario on Hard (1 level above recommended). We got the first 6 scenarios on the first try, failed the 7th because I made a horrible, horrible move, and then got it the 2nd time through.

The first 3 or 4 scenarios, I was always on the verge of running out of cards. Two things really helped:

1. The level 2 and level 3 upgrade cards are great non-loss cards that are much more useful than the cards they replace, including a really welcome Move 4 and an area of effect stun when I use the Ice that the Mindthief is now producing regularly.

2. Learning how to contribute on turns when I'm not dealing out damage. A specific example of this is timing it so I intentionally get hit right before I use Mana Bolt to heal myself, providing effective damage mitigation for the Mindthief, even though in general I want to be out of combat. Another specific example is using the INVISIBILITY CLOAK. This item can be a complete scenario-winner on its own. Using the stand-in-the-doorway-while-invisible trick can be an amazingly useful thing to do, and it works with any hand.
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Mathue Faulkner
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Charian wrote:
zjhomrighaus wrote:
I'd be curious to see how Spellweaver worked with a tank or other damage dealer... unfortunately, with two ranged guys, it took us longer to deal with threats and clear rooms... so even if we had the ability to keep decks longer than other classes, we spent more time killing monsters so it kind of evened out.

The other downside for me was that after the first few scenarios, I almost completely stopped looting... I just didn't have time to mess around. Every single action was driven by trying to push through the rooms as quickly as possible without exception knowing that I was going to run out of cards.

One thing I should have mentioned up top is that I really loved my experience with Gloomhaven. I'm not being critical of the design or crying foul. I just wanted to see if we maybe gave ourselves a tough road to hoe with our class choices in a 2 player campaign.


Apart from my musings above, the main 'problem' with your pairing is the Tinkerer's relative weakness in 2p. Actually, the synergy between the 2 characters is pretty good. The Spellweaver/Cragheart combo is (one of) the strongest starting duo's and they are both ranged as well.
Looting is not that important so overall, if every scenario was tense and you've enjoyed yourself...I'd say you've done pretty great

Meh. The Tinkerer is fine with 2p. You just build him differently..
 
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Luke
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mfaulk80 wrote:

Meh. The Tinkerer is fine with 2p. You just build him differently..


I agree with that. I ran one with a lightning bolt class for awhile and it worked out particularly well.

I also played one alongside a Cragheart after my Spellweaver retired.

The Tinkerer is versatile and can output good damage if built that way.
 
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