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Wing Leader: Victories 1940-1942» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Poor Japanese rss

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ADDA Marc
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Those are just some thoughts after some battles (note that I usually play solo as I don't have opponents but WL is wonderful in that regard).

Usually, a pacific scenario ends with a clear japanese defeat, at least when I play. The poor zéros quickly return to base after one or, with hope, two fights, their poor fire factor and protection meaning they will suffer a lot and inflict not much punishments, and having no radio means they are easily dirupted.
And the very low bombing factor of their dive bombers mean that hiting a US ship is quite a feat. By comparison, Stukas are uber weapons of death.

In the end, they suffer a lot for a very meagre result.

Has anyone the same feeling?

Marc
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Andrew Clifford
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madpax wrote:


In the end, they suffer a lot for a very meagre result.

Has anyone the same feeling?

Marc


Marc,

I think that's how most of Japan felt in 1945

Andrew
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Rumpelstilskin
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nurglepus wrote:
madpax wrote:


In the end, they suffer a lot for a very meagre result.

Has anyone the same feeling?

Marc


Marc,

I think that's how most of Japan felt in 1945

Andrew


...but not necessary in 1941 and the beginning of '42...

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ADDA Marc
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I didn't try 43-45 (I love later jap fighters, like the Frank), but in 41-42, that's how they are feeling with me.
Seppuku is not far from me...

Marc
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Lee Brimmicombe-Wood
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A good source on the early Japanese is Lundstrom's First Team books. These two volumes cover the carrier battles of the early Pacific War, up to November 1942. These are mostly Wildcat and Zero matchups described in great detail. What they reveal is that the Zero's reputation was somewhat inflated.

The comment on the Val dive-bombers is an interesting one. We are now looking at a second edition of Victories, and are re-examining the Pacific combats, and bomb values in general. What has to be realised is that the Val *did* carry a too-light bomb load (around half that of an SBD) and I think this impaired it in the early carrier battles. That said, we may have underrated the Vals. I'm taking another look at the numbers as part of an overhaul of the whole bombing system, and we might adjust these in future editions.
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Joe
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pilotofficerprune wrote:
A good source on the early Japanese is Lundstrom's First Team books. These two volumes cover the carrier battles of the early Pacific War, up to November 1942. These are mostly Wildcat and Zero matchups described in great detail. What they reveal is that the Zero's reputation was somewhat inflated.

The First Team books are very good.

Wasn't the Zeroes reputation made against the Chinese and pre-war US and British aircraft? Not to mention the outnumbered Dutch.
 
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Lee Brimmicombe-Wood
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Yes, the early victories resulted in the Japanese, in Western eyes, going from bespectacled runts to six foot tall supermen. Their equipment, like the Zero, gained an inflated reputation against the British and Dutch. Certainly, the Zero outclassed aircraft like the Buffalo. Against the P-40C and the F4F they were an even match on the whole, and benefited from the strength of their pilot cadre, especially in the Navy.

The thesis of First Team was that it was the best of the pre-war USN pilots up against the best of the IJN, and they came out roughly even. From that point the IJN pilots would gradually decline, while the Navy 'First Team' went on to train the next generation of carrier pilots and shepherd them through the service's growing pains.
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ADDA Marc
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pilotofficerprune wrote:
... going from bespectacled runts to six foot tall supermen...

They met the sumos?

I don't know if values should be modified, but maybe the Victory Conditions should be less hard on the Japanese.

Marc
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Lee Brimmicombe-Wood
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I think that's fair. We are revisiting some of the original scenarios for the second edition and looking at rebalancing some to account for the second edition rules changes.

There are two other issues you raised that we are looking at.

(1) Bomb values. This is a long discussion but the decision to base bomb values on a linear scale has proven problematic, particularly at values above and below 1,000 lb payloads. (The payload range of 1,000 to 2,000 lb is critical, as this was the load of most fighter-bombers in the mid- and late-war.) For the second edition we're looking at adopting a scale based on a square root curve that pivots on the 1,000 lb value (i.e. bomb values of 9 remain the same) but flatten the values above and below this. The current formula we are looking at would raise the 250 kg (551 lb) bombs from 5 to 7, permitting heavy damage to all non-Essex-class carriers on a 100% hit. The critical 1,000 to 2,000 lb payload range would fit between values of 9 and 13. More work needs to be done on testing and validating this before the second edition appears.

(2) Radios. Another issue we are discussing is the no radio cohesion modifier. The literature suggests that this should be a factor on cohesion. However, the effect of a +1 die roll modifier might be too great, particularly where the break point on a 2d6 roll hovers around 7. I don't know yet if we will change this--there are some strong voices amongst the playtesters suggesting we keep it as-is. But certainly it makes early war Japanese and Soviet squadrons very fragile.
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Ethan McKinney
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On an exact fail, roll 50/50?
 
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Lee Brimmicombe-Wood
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Not sure what you're suggesting, Ethan. The context has somehow gotten lost.
 
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