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Subject: When do you declare small items? rss

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Craig Southworth
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If im understanding things correctly you can have as many items as you like in your stash (so to speak) but you are limited to a single item of each equipped item and a number of small items equal to your level, halved and rounded up.

My question is, when exactly do you declare what you are taking?

1. In Gloomhaven before drawing a Road Event?
2. After a Road Event has concluded?
3. Immediately before starting a scenario, after all even cards are drawn?

So for example if i had 2 potions at level 1 and came across a road event which exhausted one of my potions, would i still be able to take one into the scenario with me? As i'd still only technically be carrying 1.

If you have to declare before you leave Gloomhaven then you have no chance of switching out items between linked scenarios without trapesing back to Gloomhaven?
 
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Bjorn B
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Time to quote the FAQ

Quote:
Beginning of Scenario Choices

What is the exact order of my choices at the beginning of a scenario in terms of battle goals, ability cards, and equipped items?
The first thing you should do when starting a scenario (after going through a Road Event when applicable), is look in the scenario book to get the map tiles set up, all the monsters you will be fighting prepared, and apply any negative scenario effects. Next, you should deal battle goals and choose one. After choosing your battle goals, then you can decided which items you would like to equip from the ones you own (adding in -1 cards to you attack modifier deck when applicable) and which ability cards you would like to start with from the pool of those you have available to you.


So choosing ability and item cards comes after you know all specifics about the scenario (setup, goal, special rules, road events and battle goal).
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HitmanN
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DobbelB wrote:
So choosing ability and item cards comes after you know all specifics about the scenario (setup, goal, special rules, road events and battle goal).


Yes, that is indeed when you choose the items.

But it still leaves a few details unclear. If an event makes you consume a potion before the scenario, how does that affect your item pool? Do you start the scenario with one potion consumed from your equipped items, after you've chosen them, or with one item your entire item selection unavailable for equipping?

There's also an event that requires everyone to
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Discard 2 cards
which happens during the event, and does not say this is a 'Start the scenario with' effect. I'm sure this case is meant to mean you start the scenario with
Spoiler (click to reveal)
two cards from your hand in your discard
but what about OP's example of item consumption? Same thing, or different?
 
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Craig Southworth
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I did read that part of the faq but immediately under that was the following:

If I am forced to discard cards because of an event, when does that happen?
Even though events happen before setting up the scenario, you should wait until you've selected your
hand of cards to decide which ones to discard.

This would indicate that you don't discard event cards until you have chosen what cards to take into the scenario with you? Or is this exclusively referring to your hand of cards and not item cards?
 
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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You choose which items and cards to bring then apply the road effects (consume a potion / discard cards / etc)
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J D
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To try and keep it realistic (even though it is a game), we select our gear before leaving Gloomhaven. Think of it as leaving it in our room at the inn. We even select our spellbook/skills at that time as well. Who would walk into a monster stronghold and then think, "hmmm I should learn to use Fire Orbs now."?

Whether it is the right way or not, I don't know, but the game feels a bit more realistic and even adds a bit more difficulty, since you can't reoutfit your character and change things up until after you fail. We found that we would have to create combinations that we hadn't thought about before.
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michele c
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Mesclor wrote:
To try and keep it realistic (even though it is a game), we select our gear before leaving Gloomhaven. Think of it as leaving it in our room at the inn. We even select our spellbook/skills at that time as well. Who would walk into a monster stronghold and then think, "hmmm I should learn to use Fire Orbs now."?


In this way, some of the battle goals are impossible to achieve.

Example:
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Use no items during the scenario. If you have a Hide Armor or an Helm equipped you have already used one.


I can see this working if you also choose battle goals before leaving town, though.

As a side note: realism and "Fire Orbs"/ monster stronghold / spellbook in the same sentence don't match very well together.
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Jay Johnson
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mhl7 wrote:
In this way, some of the battle goals are impossible to achieve.

Example:
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Use no items during the scenario. If you have a Hide Armor or an Helm equipped you have already used one.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
according to the FAQ, "Any instance of you applying the effects of an item card to a situation is considered a use."

So it wouldn't count as "using an item" just because it is equipped at the start of the scenario (unless the effect of the item is to be able to equip more items than you normally could). Also, unless the item has "charges" (circles to track multiple uses), then the use of that item is always optional. So you could choose not to use your helm, but you must always use your Hide Armor when facing attack damage (unless you can negate it via other means)
 
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Jay Johnson
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even though you don't finalize which items and ability cards you're taking with you into the scenario until after a road event, and consequences from the road event persist until you do make your choices.

Therefore, if it calls for discarding two ability cards, then after selecting which cards you're taking with you, prior to the first round, you would then choose two cards to place into your discard pile, and then proceed with the round as normal.

If it calls for one of your consumable items to be consumed, after selecting which items you want to bring with you, you would them consume one of the consumables. Now I suppose if you have a whole stockpile of items, it is possible you could game your way out of the penalty by choosing only non-consumable items for that scenario, but generally the consumable items are more powerful than other items (which is why they are limited to one-time use in each scenario generally), so even though you are avoiding the direct penalty, it is still indirectly affecting you. (not that there are plenty of non-potion items that are considered "consumed" upon use, so even though you aren't actually eating/drinking something like, say,
Spoiler (click to reveal)
a battle axe

it is still "consumed" after a use.
 
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Bernard
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This flowchart is also really helpful as a reminder of the different steps and their order:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/155362/flowcharts-cam...
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JayJ79 wrote:
So it wouldn't count as "using an item" just because it is equipped at the start of the scenario (unless the effect of the item is to be able to equip more items than you normally could).

Any items that change your attack modifier deck must be considered "used" as soon as you pick them, since otherwise items that only change your attack modifier deck would never be "used".
 
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Jay Johnson
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piman wrote:
JayJ79 wrote:
So it wouldn't count as "using an item" just because it is equipped at the start of the scenario (unless the effect of the item is to be able to equip more items than you normally could).

Any items that change your attack modifier deck must be considered "used" as soon as you pick them, since otherwise items that only change your attack modifier deck would never be "used".

Depends on what the intended "use" of the item is.
Is the intended "use" of armor to be dead weight and slow you down (which is what the adding of the -1 modifiers represents)? I seriously doubt it.
Therefore, I wouldn't consider the armor to have been "used" until it absorbs damage.

If there are items that beneficially add something to the attack modifier deck, then I could see it being argued that they are "used" when those added modifiers are actually drawn. If they take out negative modifiers, then such arguments don't make sense and then I agree that the initial equipping of the items (and removal of negative modifiers) constitutes a use. of course, I haven't looked through all possible items (and haven't personally come across any that fit this definition), so I don't know what, if any, of this hypothetical argument actually applies.
 
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Robert Marney
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Yes, there are some later items that have beneficial effects on your modifier deck. Those are arguably "used" as soon as you put them on.
 
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Jay Johnson
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Robyrt wrote:
Yes, there are some later items that have beneficial effects on your modifier deck. Those are arguably "used" as soon as you put them on.

Makes sense for those items, then.
But I still wouldn't think it necessrily applies to items with the "add -1 cards" encumbrance penalties.
 
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Walter McCormick
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mhl7 wrote:

Example:
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Use no items during the scenario. If you have a Hide Armor or an Helm equipped you have already used one.


Not true.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
In the case of the Hide Armor, it is only used one you take a hit for >0 damage. Then you MUST expend a charge to prevent a damage and the item is now used. If you can avoid getting hit for the whole scenario, the goal is still complete.

Second, the crit blocking helm is optional. You can choose to let the monster hit you for x2 and not use the helm.
 
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Dwight Sullivan
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zaphoduk wrote:
I did read that part of the faq but immediately under that was the following:

If I am forced to discard cards because of an event, when does that happen?
Even though events happen before setting up the scenario, you should wait until you've selected your
hand of cards to decide which ones to discard.

This would indicate that you don't discard event cards until you have chosen what cards to take into the scenario with you? Or is this exclusively referring to your hand of cards and not item cards?

This is talking about Ability cards. You would start the senario with cards in your discard pile.
 
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Dwight Sullivan
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zaphoduk wrote:
If im understanding things correctly you can have as many items as you like in your stash (so to speak) but you are limited to a single item of each equipped item and a number of small items equal to your level, halved and rounded up.

My question is, when exactly do you declare what you are taking?

1. In Gloomhaven before drawing a Road Event?
2. After a Road Event has concluded?
3. Immediately before starting a scenario, after all even cards are drawn?

So for example if i had 2 potions at level 1 and came across a road event which exhausted one of my potions, would i still be able to take one into the scenario with me? As i'd still only technically be carrying 1.

If you have to declare before you leave Gloomhaven then you have no chance of switching out items between linked scenarios without trapesing back to Gloomhaven?

I think you are making it too complicated.

Road events and City events do not involve item cards. They have an effect on you. you can not fix that effect with items until you are in a senario.

If an event makes you reduce your HP. You will start the senario with reduced HP. Just before that senaio is when you choose what items to equip and the fact that you are low on HP might help you make that choice.

you can only use items during a senario.
 
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Chris Willott
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Mesclor wrote:
To try and keep it realistic (even though it is a game), we select our gear before leaving Gloomhaven. Think of it as leaving it in our room at the inn. We even select our spellbook/skills at that time as well. Who would walk into a monster stronghold and then think, "hmmm I should learn to use Fire Orbs now."?


It would certainly add difficulty to play it that way. The way we justify foreknowledge of what monsters / traps / overlays might be in a certain dungeon, is that rumors abound. Some other traveler would have mentioned that the place is overrun by Stink Demons and that they heard of a guy who went in but got stuck in a poison trap. Or that it was flooded, or ...

It's seems reasonable that the rumor mill would pass on information about the types of monsters around, but not their exact locations, and from "yellow" adventurers (who thought they could do it, but got scared away by the first room) even knowing the layout / number of monsters / number of doors that you'd encounter upon first entering.

We then play with everything else hidden. (As I think was intended)
 
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Robert Stewart
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JayJ79 wrote:
If it calls for one of your consumable items to be consumed, after selecting which items you want to bring with you, you would them consume one of the consumables. Now I suppose if you have a whole stockpile of items, it is possible you could game your way out of the penalty by choosing only non-consumable items for that scenario


Not according to the FAQ:

FAQ wrote:
Does consuming items during a road event make them unavailable during the scenario?
Yes.

What does “unavailable” mean regarding items consumed during road events?
You must equip the item into a slot, already consumed, but mechanics that allow you to refresh items can apply to the unavailable item
 
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Craig Southworth
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Xaqery wrote:
zaphoduk wrote:
If im understanding things correctly you can have as many items as you like in your stash (so to speak) but you are limited to a single item of each equipped item and a number of small items equal to your level, halved and rounded up.

My question is, when exactly do you declare what you are taking?

1. In Gloomhaven before drawing a Road Event?
2. After a Road Event has concluded?
3. Immediately before starting a scenario, after all even cards are drawn?

So for example if i had 2 potions at level 1 and came across a road event which exhausted one of my potions, would i still be able to take one into the scenario with me? As i'd still only technically be carrying 1.

If you have to declare before you leave Gloomhaven then you have no chance of switching out items between linked scenarios without trapesing back to Gloomhaven?

I think you are making it too complicated.

Road events and City events do not involve item cards. They have an effect on you. you can not fix that effect with items until you are in a senario.

If an event makes you reduce your HP. You will start the senario with reduced HP. Just before that senaio is when you choose what items to equip and the fact that you are low on HP might help you make that choice.

you can only use items during a senario.


Not true, the specific road event we had was something like...
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Woman stranded on the road and we had to give her our potions, ergo we had to discard item cards. I can't remember the exact wording on the card.
 
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Dwight Sullivan
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zaphoduk wrote:
Xaqery wrote:
zaphoduk wrote:
If im understanding things correctly you can have as many items as you like in your stash (so to speak) but you are limited to a single item of each equipped item and a number of small items equal to your level, halved and rounded up.

My question is, when exactly do you declare what you are taking?

1. In Gloomhaven before drawing a Road Event?
2. After a Road Event has concluded?
3. Immediately before starting a scenario, after all even cards are drawn?

So for example if i had 2 potions at level 1 and came across a road event which exhausted one of my potions, would i still be able to take one into the scenario with me? As i'd still only technically be carrying 1.

If you have to declare before you leave Gloomhaven then you have no chance of switching out items between linked scenarios without trapesing back to Gloomhaven?

I think you are making it too complicated.

Road events and City events do not involve item cards. They have an effect on you. you can not fix that effect with items until you are in a senario.

If an event makes you reduce your HP. You will start the senario with reduced HP. Just before that senaio is when you choose what items to equip and the fact that you are low on HP might help you make that choice.

you can only use items during a senario.


Not true, the specific road event we had was something like...
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Woman stranded on the road and we had to give her our potions, ergo we had to discard item cards. I can't remember the exact wording on the card.


I stand corrected. In that case:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I would say you set aside the item(s) and they can not be part of your pool of items to choose from at the start of the senario. But on the road you are not "equipped" you just have stuff that you can use to equip yourself when the senario begins. This list of stuff will shrink due to that road event. Once the senario begins and its time to equip yourself you will choose from your remaining items.
 
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Zachary Homrighaus
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Willottica wrote:
Mesclor wrote:
To try and keep it realistic (even though it is a game), we select our gear before leaving Gloomhaven. Think of it as leaving it in our room at the inn. We even select our spellbook/skills at that time as well. Who would walk into a monster stronghold and then think, "hmmm I should learn to use Fire Orbs now."?


It would certainly add difficulty to play it that way. The way we justify foreknowledge of what monsters / traps / overlays might be in a certain dungeon, is that rumors abound. Some other traveler would have mentioned that the place is overrun by Stink Demons and that they heard of a guy who went in but got stuck in a poison trap. Or that it was flooded, or ...

It's seems reasonable that the rumor mill would pass on information about the types of monsters around, but not their exact locations, and from "yellow" adventurers (who thought they could do it, but got scared away by the first room) even knowing the layout / number of monsters / number of doors that you'd encounter upon first entering.

We then play with everything else hidden. (As I think was intended)


I think about it similarly, but instead of rumor mill, I assume we are doing some recon of the area, asking questions, knocking some heads together (as the quest books says in the first scenario). We get a good sense of the room layouts and what types of bad guys we might encounter before kicking the door in. We don't have all that info when we leave Gloomhaven, so we bring all our gear just in case. Once we are ready and have done our research, we drop our packs in the woods 400m from the encounter and get geared up. When we're ready, we step into the clearing or kick down the door and shit gets real!

After we have cleared the objective, we go back to our stash of gear and heal up before heading back to Gloomhaven or to a different encounter.
 
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