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Subject: Vinhos Deluxe or Viticulture? rss

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John Van Wagoner
United States
Bluffton
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- is there really any difference?
- and if so, what are the major differences?
- and if you've played both, which did you prefer?

thanks!
 
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Miguel Gonzalez
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I play and love both.

Viticulture needs Tuscany Expansion to really shine imho.

Vinhos is amazing right out of the box.

Both games are vastly differently as far as my experience goes and have only the theme in common. I would consider Vinhos the more complex game, although Viticulture does pose some interesting choices, too.

Viticulture goes up to 6 players which may be a factor depending on your group. Vinhos requires much more planning ahead and has little luck elements.

Viticulture plays more around the cards than the actual worker placement spots, although those are of course the key/center mechanic. In Vinhos you only have one worker and it is closer to action selection than worker placement from a mechanics point of view.

I own both games and love them both for their individual design choices. Lately Vinhos has been more interesting, because my wife and I tend to the heavier side of Euros. Since we're both huge fans of Jamey and Vital it is always a tough choice which game to choose. I'd pick Viticulture for a more casual group and Vinhos if you look for something a bit heavier.

I rated both games 8+ and Viticulture alone, without Tuscany a solid 7.
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Jörg Schröder
Germany
Kassel
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Apart from the theme the games have nothing in common...!

Especially in terms of complexity:
Viticulture is a rather light game, easy to teach (and yes, it neads the expansion Tuscany: Expand the World of Viticulture or the Viticulture Essential Edition).
On the other hand Vinhos is a complex and tough game. The 2016 variant is rather forgiving, the original version is in part unforgiving and a player can easily fall behind because of fail decisions.
If you like complex games with playtime over 2h with a high entry hurdle, than you will love Vinhos. If you like rather medium weight games, go with Viticulture.

I for myself want to play Vinhos, esp. the 2016 variant over and over again and I am willing to play Viticultur occasionally...
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Ralph H. Anderson
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Prospect
Connecticut
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I generally agree with the other posts so far and they give a good overall summary of the strengths and differences in the games.

I like Viticulture a lot, however I am a bit disappointed in the cards as they are not all equal. You can get two cards that do the same thing but one does it much better - not a good experience. You can also win Viticulture without making much, if any, wine (again, due to the cards). Nevertheless, I do like the turn structure, and the essential elements from Tuscany that are, as already mentioned, necessary for the game. You can also tweak the card decks once you have played a bit to balance them better by removing certain cards. I also find it is just as long a game as Vinhos, especially if you play with 5 or 6 players.

I have only played Vinhos Deluxe and not the original version, although I am sure we will. Vinhos is also a very strong game and a strong contender in the Lacerda ouvre. (Vital is one of my favorite designers). You cannot win without making wine - it is the center of the game, and you have many actual varieties to indulge in (instead of just red, white and mixed in Viticulture). You must choose wisely which areas of the game to concentrate on for your victory points.

Both games have a place in my collection and are enjoyed. They provide totally different experiences. I give the nod to Vinhos as to my favorite between the two as I appreciate the depth and balance of the game design and the great production quality overall.
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Vital Lacerda
Portugal
Oeiras
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2010 - Vinhos, 2012 - CO2, 2014 - kanban, 2015 - The Gallerist, 2016 - Vinhos Deluxe, 2017 - Lisboa, 2018 - Escape Plan, CO2 Second Chance and Dragon Keepers - Maybe: 2019 - ROTW Portugal and On Mars, 2020 - Kanban Deluxe Edition, Mercato
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Me too. I also prefer Vinhos to Viniculture.
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Andrew Brown
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My fiance and I play and enjoy both. Can't really go wrong.

We have a slight preference for Viticulture at 2p. This is because competing in the wine fair is underwhelming when there are only two competitors. With 3-4 players, we prefer Vinhos, mostly because it is the more strategic game. We occasionally have a bad experience with Viticulture because of poor card draws. There is nothing like this to sour a play of Vinhos. Viticulture is more accessible and easier to teach others.

I don't think the Tuscany expansion is essential to enjoying Viticulture. I agree that the extended board is great, but I first played without it and still really enjoyed the game.
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Bryan Thunkd
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Florence
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JoergBoerg wrote:
Apart from the theme the games have nothing in common...!
This. In particular, Viticulture has much more randomness than Vinhos. Vinhos is also a much tighter game... you only have 12 actions in the game.

Both are great games, but I prefer Vinhos.

newrev wrote:
I also prefer Vinhos to Viniculture.
It's like the game was designed with your preferences in mind.
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mfl134
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Havertown
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I personally like Viticulture as the base game out of the box. I don't prefer most of the things added by the expansion. (I do like playing with the advanced visitors as it removes some of the luck of the draw with visitor cards, but I'm fine with the base ones as well.)

My biggest compaints:
- Most of the expansions help you get things going quickly which makes the struggle for money not as big. This also means that scoring a cheap wine order for the early residual income isn't as valuable, IMO. I prefer the game more when I feel more constrained.
- With the Mamas and Papas expansion, you don't all start with a Pinot vine. This means that players who randomly draw the Pinot are at a huge advantage over those who don't. While this might help with replayability, I feel it add an extra luck element that I don't like too much.


So discussing Viticulture and Vinhos:

Viticulture:
- Goal of Game: How can I score 20 points in 5-7 rounds?
- This is not a game about making your Winery the best, it is a game about racing to score 20 points first.
- Simple to understand how to play
- Player interaction through worker placement and occasional visitor cards

Vinhos:
- Lots of ways to score points and many of those points come at the end of the game.
- While not worker placement, you are restricted during the game in your actions due to additional costs (generally exactly when you want to do the action.)
- I prefer the original rules for the same reasons I don't care for tuscany. I prefer games where you need to do the best handling scarce resources rather than min/maxing points the best with flowing resources.

And to throw another in the mix:

Grand Cru:
- Everyone starts the game in debt and the game ends as soon as 1 player gets out of debt.
- Your end debt position (or cash position) is part of your score, how well you built you winery is another part of your score.
- Player interaction is through auctions that feature a buy it now mechanic. Also, players can manipulate values of wines on the market.


personally, I like grand cru the most, but I think they all are worth playing and fit a different niche despite all being wine games.
 
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Ella
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newrev wrote:
Me too. I also prefer Vinhos to Viniculture.

laugh
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Matthias Habelitz
Germany
Zweibrücken
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Short answer: Vinhos Deluxe

Long answer - Viticulture has more the feeling of a racing game. It's a light to medium weight game, there's and has a luck factor that probably could determine who's winning. It plays nice but it's not outstanding IMHO - but I prefer it over Scythe.
Vinhos Deluxe is a complex game which hast deep strategy. It's a typical Eurogame with light interaction. You have to plan carefully which way/strategy you'll try this time at the start of every game. Even your first choice, before the game starts is relevant. Vinhos is in my Top 10 of all time and Viticulture doesn't make into my top 50 games of all time
 
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Nathaniel Chambers
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Austin
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Vinhos Delixe is the one I'd go for. I really didn't care for viticulture + Tuscany. Felt too easy and repetitive. I also prefer the visuals of Bi his Delixe.
 
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