Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
13 Posts

Charterstone» Forums » General

Subject: 2 player game; Add automa or not? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Paul Corson

Springfield
Missouri
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hello, my wife and I just finished game 1 and had an enjoyable time. She won and I can't wait to exact my revenge in game 2. We didn't play with any automa in game 1 as per the suggestion in the chronicle.

I was curious if other players in 2-player games found that adding automa enhanced or detracted from the game experience? We are considering adding two automa to our game, but are hesitant if the extra rules might bog us down. My wife is not a natural gamer (she's coming around, been working on converting her for years now) and enjoys playing but lots of rules and downtime ruin the game for her.

My desire to add automa comes from wanting to maybe have a 3rd (and 4th) competing party rather than a head to head 2 player game. Just looking for opinions. Thanks


...and a sidenote, really impressed with the quality of the components, cards, and box art of the game!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christoph M.
Germany
Unspecified
flag msg tools
badge
Waiting for Winter - Season 8!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We played game 1 without, games 2 and 3 with automas, and I'd advise to use them. Minimal effort for playing them, but they spice things up with both their victory points challenging you, as well them opening crates and building additional building you and your wife can make use of.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamey Stegmaier
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Paul: Given the part of your comment about what can ruin a game for your wife, I wouldn't recommend adding Automa until Game 4 at the earliest. You could then try it for a game, and if it doesn't sit well, you can continue without it.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Buchanan
Canada
flag msg tools
mb
My wife and I have played 2 games so far.

Game 1 we did not use any Automa. Game 1 feels like a tutorial game, walking you through the ins and outs of the game. I'd recommend not using any Automa.

Game 2 we used two Automa. This made the game much more interesting. We did make one change though, we gave the Automa a power level of 1 instead of 2. I won the game, my wife was 1 point behind me, and the 2 Automa were both with 5 points of her ... so it was still pretty close. I recommended doing this if you add the Automa in Game 2.

I don't see us never not using Automa again. They make the worker placement, market, reputation track, etc., just that much more interesting at 2-player.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Corson

Springfield
Missouri
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the suggestions. I think we'll try game 2 with just the two of us to make sure we firmly grasp the rules and maybe we'll have time for game 3 tonight and might try automa then.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Carey
United States
West Coast
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
WBuchanan wrote:
We did make one change though, we gave the Automa a power level of 1 instead of 2. I recommended doing this if you add the Automa in Game 2.


Is the standard recommendation to use level 1 Automa in Game 1 (when playing solitaire), and start Automa at level 2 in Game 2 (for multiplayer)?

In other words, just checking to see if Automa should start at level 1 in Game 2 (multiplayer), or did you just want to power it down a level to make things a bit easier?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Buchanan
Canada
flag msg tools
mb
Steve Carey wrote:
WBuchanan wrote:
We did make one change though, we gave the Automa a power level of 1 instead of 2. I recommended doing this if you add the Automa in Game 2.


Is the standard recommendation to use level 1 Automa in Game 1 (when playing solitaire), and start Automa at level 2 in Game 2 (for multiplayer)?

In other words, just checking to see if Automa should start at level 1 in Game 2 (multiplayer), or did you just want to power it down a level to make things a bit easier?


The rules (as I understood them) for multiplayer suggest, if going to use Automa, you start using them in Game 3 and they start with a power level of 2.

I've seen some videos where people say the Automa are "over-powered" at first and end up wining the early game easy. So for this reason, and because we started using them one game earlier than recommended, I decided to start them off at power level 1.

We experienced no noticeable problem with this, and it worked beautifully in my mind, as they were still competitive and could have won (but didn't) and had the desired effect of making the gameplay more interesting.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Derek Strand
Canada
Langley
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
MASK Crusaders... working overtime... fighting crime... fighting crime!!! Secret Raiders...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW:
My wife and I played the first 4 games, 2 player, without automa.

I wanted to try the automa in game 4 for 2 reasons:
1. I've used the automa system in Scythe, and I liked using it a lot in that game, and I was curious how it would go in Charterstone.
2. I wanted to see how a little more competition for spots would change our game experience.

I decided to add 2 automa into the mix which I thought would add a good 4 player feel to the game. I thought I would really like the game with 2 automa but I did NOT.

Our first 3 games were moving at a somewhat slower pace. When I added 2 automa, we ended up unlocking a lot more stuff than normally experienced. In game 4 we unlocked minions and peril tokens and something else which I cannot remember at this moment. I was quite surprised how 4 players increased the speed to which crates, etc., open.

Albeit automa are easy to manipulate in the game. I found keeping track of automa moves, opening their crates, reading the new rules, etc., to be too much added work to my own load. It took away from my ability to focus on my own game and the enjoyable experience, I was having just playing with 2 players. I found adding 2 automa sped the game up too much and there was a little too much development in the one game for my liking.

What I did like is that the automa will open the lowest numbered crates in the advancement deck. I find the lower crates (ones from other charters) tend to be less sought after as we are always interested in unlocking the newest thing in the higher numbered crates. We are always craving to see what comes next, so lower crates tend to be less desirable. From the reading the Charterstone forums, I can now see there is value in opening the lower crates as it can grant you access to other buildings to your benefit later. So my view of low numbered crates is slowly changing however curiosity always drives us toward the higher numbered crate purchases.

So, in the end, I don't dislike using the automa, but I will never use 2 automa again at the same time. (Perhaps if my wife were to operate one of the automa for me? -sigh- But... she won't.) My wife and I returned to playing Charterstone 2 player in game 5, and we are enjoying the game at that speed. The games are running about 60 minutes. Our game with 2 automa was nearly 2 hours. I was surprised how little I enjoyed the automa experience in game 4. In the future, we might add 1 automa into a game just to build out some of the stuff we may not get to see otherwise, however, we are enjoying just continuing to play with 2 players.

In Conclusion: I think the automa just kinda bogs down a pretty streamlined, fun 2 player experience.


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
/|\ Roland /|\
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My opinion is somewhere in the middle on this one. My plays so far have been:

Game 1 - Solo with 3 Automa
Game 2 through 5 - 2 player (me and gaming buddy) with 2 Automa

While the Automa are expertly crafted to make them super easy to play, and competitive, my personal opinion is I did feel like they unlocked too much too fast in the first 4 games.

I have the recharge pack to play again with my wife, and I think I will add only one Automa to our two player campaign. But I will definitely always use it when playing two player, just limiting to one.

Maybe my opinion will change by the time I finish my first campaign, but for now, it feels like we may exhaust the unlocks too quickly for my tastes. Like butter on toast, I want it to cover all of the bread, smoothly and evenly.

Edit - i guess i could have summarized this by saying, to me, i feel like 3 player is where this thing shines, Automa or not. not too fast, not too slow, but just right.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Buchanan
Canada
flag msg tools
mb
dboyee wrote:
POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW:
My wife and I played the first 4 games, 2 player, without automa.

I wanted to try the automa in game 4 for 2 reasons:
1. I've used the automa system in Scythe, and I liked using it a lot in that game, and I was curious how it would go in Charterstone.
2. I wanted to see how a little more competition for spots would change our game experience.

I decided to add 2 automa into the mix which I thought would add a good 4 player feel to the game. I thought I would really like the game with 2 automa but I did NOT.

Our first 3 games were moving at a somewhat slower pace. When I added 2 automa, we ended up unlocking a lot more stuff than normally experienced. In game 4 we unlocked minions and peril tokens and something else which I cannot remember at this moment. I was quite surprised how 4 players increased the speed to which crates, etc., open.

Albeit automa are easy to manipulate in the game. I found keeping track of automa moves, opening their crates, reading the new rules, etc., to be too much added work to my own load. It took away from my ability to focus on my own game and the enjoyable experience, I was having just playing with 2 players. I found adding 2 automa sped the game up too much and there was a little too much development in the one game for my liking.

What I did like is that the automa will open the lowest numbered crates in the advancement deck. I find the lower crates (ones from other charters) tend to be less sought after as we are always interested in unlocking the newest thing in the higher numbered crates. We are always craving to see what comes next, so lower crates tend to be less desirable. From the reading the Charterstone forums, I can now see there is value in opening the lower crates as it can grant you access to other buildings to your benefit later. So my view of low numbered crates is slowly changing however curiosity always drives us toward the higher numbered crate purchases.

So, in the end, I don't dislike using the automa, but I will never use 2 automa again at the same time. (Perhaps if my wife were to operate one of the automa for me? -sigh- But... she won't.) My wife and I returned to playing Charterstone 2 player in game 5, and we are enjoying the game at that speed. The games are running about 60 minutes. Our game with 2 automa was nearly 2 hours. I was surprised how little I enjoyed the automa experience in game 4. In the future, we might add 1 automa into a game just to build out some of the stuff we may not get to see otherwise, however, we are enjoying just continuing to play with 2 players.

In Conclusion: I think the automa just kinda bogs down a pretty streamlined, fun 2 player experience.




In our Game 2 (the only one in which we have used Automa) we did i this way ...

2 Automa. My wife controlled one, and I controlled the other.

After her turn, her Automa would take his (Clayton) turn. She would conduct his turn.
After my turn, my Automa would take her (Mayor Goodway) turn. I would conduct her turn.

We'd leave the workers on the Automa's persona card, this helped us remember if we needed to draw a card or recall workers.

This really made the Automa's turn just an extension of each human's player turn, which made it very simple to keep straight in our heads.

We found like most of the time the Automa (and it was mostly my wife's Automa Clayton doing this) would be opening the inactive charters basic buildings and personas. Of course this is just Game 2, so that's likely expected. We liked this as it got more buildings into the advancement deck. It also puts more emphasis on us to use the market to buy any of these crates and/or buildings there, instead of just letting them sit there with no pressure to pick them up.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Coppel
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We're playing 4 players and still added the automa's. The game really opens up with the more player's or automa's you have. Does it make it longer and a bbit more of bookkeeping, yes, but in my oppionon it adds 200% to the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brent Wilson
United States
Montgomery
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dboyee wrote:
POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW:
My wife and I played the first 4 games, 2 player, without automa.

I wanted to try the automa in game 4 for 2 reasons:
1. I've used the automa system in Scythe, and I liked using it a lot in that game, and I was curious how it would go in Charterstone.
2. I wanted to see how a little more competition for spots would change our game experience.

I decided to add 2 automa into the mix which I thought would add a good 4 player feel to the game. I thought I would really like the game with 2 automa but I did NOT.

Our first 3 games were moving at a somewhat slower pace. When I added 2 automa, we ended up unlocking a lot more stuff than normally experienced. In game 4 we unlocked minions and peril tokens and something else which I cannot remember at this moment. I was quite surprised how 4 players increased the speed to which crates, etc., open.

Albeit automa are easy to manipulate in the game. I found keeping track of automa moves, opening their crates, reading the new rules, etc., to be too much added work to my own load. It took away from my ability to focus on my own game and the enjoyable experience, I was having just playing with 2 players. I found adding 2 automa sped the game up too much and there was a little too much development in the one game for my liking.

What I did like is that the automa will open the lowest numbered crates in the advancement deck. I find the lower crates (ones from other charters) tend to be less sought after as we are always interested in unlocking the newest thing in the higher numbered crates. We are always craving to see what comes next, so lower crates tend to be less desirable. From the reading the Charterstone forums, I can now see there is value in opening the lower crates as it can grant you access to other buildings to your benefit later. So my view of low numbered crates is slowly changing however curiosity always drives us toward the higher numbered crate purchases.

So, in the end, I don't dislike using the automa, but I will never use 2 automa again at the same time. (Perhaps if my wife were to operate one of the automa for me? -sigh- But... she won't.) My wife and I returned to playing Charterstone 2 player in game 5, and we are enjoying the game at that speed. The games are running about 60 minutes. Our game with 2 automa was nearly 2 hours. I was surprised how little I enjoyed the automa experience in game 4. In the future, we might add 1 automa into a game just to build out some of the stuff we may not get to see otherwise, however, we are enjoying just continuing to play with 2 players.

In Conclusion: I think the automa just kinda bogs down a pretty streamlined, fun 2 player experience.




We've finished game 3 and haven't yet used automas, but I could really relate to your complaints about unlocking so much stuff at once. We unlocked a couple minions late in game 2 and then due to the game 3 guidepost taking the focus off of achievements, we went on a building tear where we built 4 buildings and opened about 5 crates (3 new mechanics) -- that's on top of the addition of 4 new building from setup. With all that extra stuff all at once, I'm glad we didn't have automas too -- but I don't think your automas were necessarily your problem.

With all the unlocks, and strategies for conserving/reclaiming influence to use for unlocks, game 3 took us about 2 hours compared to less than an hour for game 2.

I suggested adding them in game 4 (which I expect to be building heavy), but the more I think about it, I think I want to play with peril without the automas screwing it up (I haven't read the automa rules for the various new mechanics so maybe this is an incorrect assumption).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Derek Strand
Canada
Langley
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
MASK Crusaders... working overtime... fighting crime... fighting crime!!! Secret Raiders...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Speedyox wrote:
dboyee wrote:
POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW:
My wife and I played the first 4 games, 2 player, without automa.

I wanted to try the automa in game 4 for 2 reasons:
1. I've used the automa system in Scythe, and I liked using it a lot in that game, and I was curious how it would go in Charterstone.
2. I wanted to see how a little more competition for spots would change our game experience.

I decided to add 2 automa into the mix which I thought would add a good 4 player feel to the game. I thought I would really like the game with 2 automa but I did NOT.

Our first 3 games were moving at a somewhat slower pace. When I added 2 automa, we ended up unlocking a lot more stuff than normally experienced. In game 4 we unlocked minions and peril tokens and something else which I cannot remember at this moment. I was quite surprised how 4 players increased the speed to which crates, etc., open.

Albeit automa are easy to manipulate in the game. I found keeping track of automa moves, opening their crates, reading the new rules, etc., to be too much added work to my own load. It took away from my ability to focus on my own game and the enjoyable experience, I was having just playing with 2 players. I found adding 2 automa sped the game up too much and there was a little too much development in the one game for my liking.

What I did like is that the automa will open the lowest numbered crates in the advancement deck. I find the lower crates (ones from other charters) tend to be less sought after as we are always interested in unlocking the newest thing in the higher numbered crates. We are always craving to see what comes next, so lower crates tend to be less desirable. From the reading the Charterstone forums, I can now see there is value in opening the lower crates as it can grant you access to other buildings to your benefit later. So my view of low numbered crates is slowly changing however curiosity always drives us toward the higher numbered crate purchases.

So, in the end, I don't dislike using the automa, but I will never use 2 automa again at the same time. (Perhaps if my wife were to operate one of the automa for me? -sigh- But... she won't.) My wife and I returned to playing Charterstone 2 player in game 5, and we are enjoying the game at that speed. The games are running about 60 minutes. Our game with 2 automa was nearly 2 hours. I was surprised how little I enjoyed the automa experience in game 4. In the future, we might add 1 automa into a game just to build out some of the stuff we may not get to see otherwise, however, we are enjoying just continuing to play with 2 players.

In Conclusion: I think the automa just kinda bogs down a pretty streamlined, fun 2 player experience.




We've finished game 3 and haven't yet used automas, but I could really relate to your complaints about unlocking so much stuff at once. We unlocked a couple minions late in game 2 and then due to the game 3 guidepost taking the focus off of achievements, we went on a building tear where we built 4 buildings and opened about 5 crates (3 new mechanics) -- that's on top of the addition of 4 new building from setup. With all that extra stuff all at once, I'm glad we didn't have automas too -- but I don't think your automas were necessarily your problem.

With all the unlocks, and strategies for conserving/reclaiming influence to use for unlocks, game 3 took us about 2 hours compared to less than an hour for game 2.

I suggested adding them in game 4 (which I expect to be building heavy), but the more I think about it, I think I want to play with peril without the automas screwing it up (I haven't read the automa rules for the various new mechanics so maybe this is an incorrect assumption).
Wow... I didn't unlock minions until game 4 when I had automa involved. Game 4 took us over 2 hours with all the unlocks. I haven't read the rules for peril and automa either, but I believe they pick them up.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.