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Warren Fitzpatrick
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Consider this the "back of the box". The game plays with 2 players, with a solo variation forthcoming. Age depends on reading ability. The plan is to start as a PnP w/ 3d models for those w/ that capability. Any feedback will be appreciated.

---------------------

In E.C.H.O.: War of the Ravaged, you control the Champions of one dimensional faction as they invade other dimensions in search of the material they need to survive the ever-encroaching Ravager Worm. But with limited resources, only one dimension will survive, and each dimensional Defender isn’t giving their resources up willingly. You must defeat the Defender before the Ravager enters the dimension to take what it wants and send your debilitated Champion back to their home dimension.

Utilizing asymmetrical powers of 3 unique Champions per player faction, deckbuilding via black market auction and “realignment” of enemy Defenders, and dice-based combat where bad rolls don’t always hurt you, the player enters dimensions in search of resource cards to fuel an experimental device designed to permanently keep the Ravager Worm away.
 
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Rob Harper
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The first paragraph seems like a reasonable thematic blurb, but this...

warrenfitz45 wrote:
Utilizing asymmetrical powers of 3 unique Champions per player faction, deckbuilding via black market auction and “realignment” of enemy Defenders, and dice-based combat where bad rolls don’t always hurt you, the player enters dimensions in search of resource cards to fuel an experimental device designed to permanently keep the Ravager Worm away.


Is a jumble of jargon and fluff that tells me almost nothing, and would probably be entirely meaningless to someone not experienced in hobby games.

Personally, I would suggest rewriting that second paragraph in a way that an elderly relative with no hobby game experience would have a chance of understanding.

So, instead of: "Utilizing asymmetrical powers of 3 unique Champions per player faction", you could have something like: "Each player has a different set of moves and actions available to them", and so on.
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    Your sentences are way too long and complex for promotional material. You should be aiming at the 4th grade reading level for a casual read of the box back. Short sentences, bullet lists, simple NV, NVNN kinds of structures.

    You're overusing the word "dimension" and its offshoots, and I stumbled on "one dimensional" because the generally accepted meaning of those words is not what you mean by it. I'd find a way to rephrase.

             S.

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Fertessa
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warrenfitz45 wrote:
Consider this the "back of the box". The game plays with 2 players, with a solo variation forthcoming. Age depends on reading ability. The plan is to start as a PnP w/ 3d models for those w/ that capability. Any feedback will be appreciated.

---------------------

In E.C.H.O.: War of the Ravaged, you control the Champions of one dimensional faction as they invade other dimensions in search of the material they need to survive the ever-encroaching Ravager Worm. But with limited resources, only one dimension will survive, and each dimensional Defender isn’t giving their resources up willingly. You must defeat the Defender before the Ravager enters the dimension to take what it wants and send your debilitated Champion back to their home dimension.

Utilizing asymmetrical powers of 3 unique Champions per player faction, deckbuilding via black market auction and “realignment” of enemy Defenders, and dice-based combat where bad rolls don’t always hurt you, the player enters dimensions in search of resource cards to fuel an experimental device designed to permanently keep the Ravager Worm away.


Heya! I'll list my thoughts as I read, so you can the full reaction of someone who picks up the box and reads the summary.

- Title is doing too much for my liking, but that's a personal preference. it just seems too busy and doesn't give me any idea of what kind of game this is. What does E.C.H.O stand for? Can the game just be E.C.H.O, or War of the Ravaged?

- Awkward to read one dimensional faction, because my mind pieces it together as one-dimensional faction. Perhaps change wording to ' a dimensional faction'.

- Feels awkward to read dimensional faction followed by invading other dimensions. What is a dimensional faction? Could you just say that the player controls a faction or a warring faction intent on invading/conquering other dimensions?

- First sentence is a bit too long. I want a period after the part about invasions. Either that or perhaps the sentence could be rewritten to refocus on the Ravager Worms. For example : You control the Champions of a faction focused on the sole object of their survival, the Ravager Worm.
Edit: I realize now that this is not the goal. It took me several reads to figure out what the end goal was, so note that.

- What is an ever encroaching Ravager Worm? when I think encroaching, I think of something which is slowly creeping up on your territory, like encroaching plants or wildlife. If there is just one of it, how is it encroaching? Is it like a blackhole? Your wording should give some clue as to what this is since it's a huge motivator in your game.

- How many dimensions are there in this game? if you are racing against the Ravager Worm, then after one conflict, is the game over? It seems like you are supposed to attack/defeat multiple defenders, but that the Ravager is also doing that? I think the wording should be a bit more clear and to the point so that the objective is more clear. Do you ever fight the Worm or is it purely you gathering resources and then winning because you stole resources from everyone?

- What do you mean by asymmetrical powers?

- How many factions are there available for play?

- That last paragraph is one giant run-on sentence. I can't even break it down to make it make sense. You are using game mechanic terminology in an area where you are talking about the gameplay, so it seems out of place and confusing. Maybe start the entire blurb with saying that War of the Ravaged is a deck-building, dice-wielding game where you must gather enough resources to save your faction from impending doom. Then you could get into the story-line a bit, so people understand what motivates players to win, and what is necessary for a win.


Overall, this summary currently gives me only a generic understanding of your game. I will control a faction. I am collecting/stealing resources by defeating some other faction (dunno if those are player controlled factions or not)You win when you gather the correct materials to build a device to repel the Ravager Worm.

I suggest focusing on simple descriptions that convey what a player needs to know, and then adding flavor, or extra descriptors after a successful simplistic draft has been made.

hope this helps!
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Level 3 Tunt
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Control the Champions of your faction as they invade other dimensions! Search for resources, battle with dice, and manipulate the black market as you try to defeat other Champions before the ever-encroaching Ravager Worm sends you back home.

With limited resources available, only one dimension will survive.


Even with that reduced text I'd say the second sentence should be broken into two separate ones. We used to do an editing exercise - go over what you've written and reduce it by 30%. Looks good? Now go over it again and take out 30% more. It will be even better.
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JPotter
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Don't know anything about the game other than your provided text. Took a shot at it:


The Ravager Worm is coming.
Battle-hardened champions invade neighboring dimensions,
searching for the materials they need
to survive the onslaught of the Worm.
No dimension will surrender its unique resources without a fight.
In a universe of limited resources, only one dimension will survive!

In E.C.H.O.: War of the Ravaged, you control three champions,
the greatest warriors of your dimension.
Each player builds a deck through exploration and clandestine auctions.
Invading other dimensions, players use their decks to unleash unique powers, searching for precious resource cards.
To win, a player must fuel the experimental [ancient?] device that will banish the Ravager Worm forever!


_______________

First reaction is why don't they just all get along, banish the worm, and move on with their lives? Get some interdimensional trade gonna. Make some improvements, spruce up the place!

Still clunky, and seems to be leaving out key details as noted in the comments above ...
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Brian Brazil
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The "genericness" of the first paragraph makes it feel half-baked. I don't want to play as "a dimensional faction ", I want to play as The Reavers or the Time Lords. Nor do I want to search for "the material I need to survive", I want to search for dilithium crystals or powdered donuts.

It seems like there's a really rich story that you want to tell, but at the same time you're trying to describe the gameplay and the mix of the two just gets muddy. I want the first paragraph to get me excited about the different factions and the worm.

Once I'm drawn into the story in the first paragraph, I want the second paragraph to tell me WHAT the game is (not how to play it). Looks like there are some good buzzwords like asymmetric and deckbuilder, but I don't know what the "black market auction and realignment of emery Defenders" is, so I can't get excited about it. If it's just flavor text, nix it. If it's a suitably new mechanism, tell me about it!

I like the part about bad dice rolls not necessarily hurting you. Again, if it's a revolutionary mechanic, keep it; if it's not, get rid of it.
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Cassandra Castro Moreno
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bbrazil69 wrote:
The "genericness" of the first paragraph makes it feel half-baked. I don't want to play as "a dimensional faction ", I want to play as The Reavers or the Time Lords. Nor do I want to search for "the material I need to survive", I want to search for dilithium crystals or powdered donuts.



Now I want to design a game where you use powdered donuts as both currency and energy source. Should be fun
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Jeff Warrender
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Just my opinions, of course:

- I don't like titles that include a colon. Pick one or the other. "War of the Ravaged" doesn't qualify ECHO in any meaningful way for me since I don't know what any of these mean.

- Like others, I was very confused by the use of 'one dimensional'. I initially thought the game was about factions trying to add to their dimensionality, leading to all sorts of weird and emergent spatial and temporal abilities. That, actually, would be really neat.

Contrariwise, I don't know what a "dimensional faction" is. Keep in mind that a game's thematic nouns and verbs exist to make the game's mechanics easier to understand.

- I am confused about whether I'm a champion or defender or both. On the one hand it seems like my champions enter my opponent's dimension and fight his defender while his champions do the same in mine, but on the other hand it seems like maybe both of our champions are fighting against an NPC defender, as well as the ravager? If it's the former, then whose dimension does the ravager enter?

It's not important that you answer these questions in the blurb text so much as, these aren't the sorts of details you want the reader to be thinking about when they're deciding whether to give the game a go.

- Second paragraph is promising, but again it appeals to things not yet in evidence. I don't know what a 'black market auction' is or what '"realignment"' is so I don't have a clear sense for what I'm going to do in the game. I assume the rules will clarify this but again, if you're telling me about the mechanics but I don't know what they mean, I don't know whether I'm excited or not.
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Warren Fitzpatrick
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First, thanks for all the help. Here's my shortened version. I'll also attempt to answer any questions that seemed to want an answer (as opposed to just a rhetorical that was meant to make me think deeper). If I miss your question, feel free to highlight it.

-------------------------------

Defend your faction’s home dimension from the Ravager Worm. But with limited resources, only one dimension will survive. Build your deck via auction on the black market or invasion of other dimensions to “convince” enemy Defenders to join your side through dice-based combat where bad rolls don’t always hurt you. Utilize each of your three Champion’s unique powers to increase your chance of success. Collect the resources and manage your hand to activate an ancient device that will permanently keep the Ravager worm at bay, saving your dimension.



 
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Warren Fitzpatrick
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aesthetocyst wrote:


First reaction is why don't they just all get along, banish the worm, and move on with their lives?


Because that'd make a boring game about war

And thanks for your rewrite. I went w/ something a good deal shorter but will be mining yours for help for my next write-up (I have to do an elevator pitch-styled one for a part of the website and a longer one for another part of the site).
 
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Warren Fitzpatrick
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Shintotchi wrote:

- Title is doing too much for my liking, but that's a personal preference. it just seems too busy and doesn't give me any idea of what kind of game this is. What does E.C.H.O stand for? Can the game just be E.C.H.O, or War of the Ravaged?

- Feels awkward to read dimensional faction followed by invading other dimensions. What is a dimensional faction? Could you just say that the player controls a faction or a warring faction intent on invading/conquering other dimensions?

- What is an ever encroaching Ravager Worm? when I think encroaching, I think of something which is slowly creeping up on your territory, like encroaching plants or wildlife. If there is just one of it, how is it encroaching? Is it like a blackhole? Your wording should give some clue as to what this is since it's a huge motivator in your game.

- How many dimensions are there in this game? if you are racing against the Ravager Worm, then after one conflict, is the game over? It seems like you are supposed to attack/defeat multiple defenders, but that the Ravager is also doing that? I think the wording should be a bit more clear and to the point so that the objective is more clear. Do you ever fight the Worm or is it purely you gathering resources and then winning because you stole resources from everyone?

- What do you mean by asymmetrical powers?

- How many factions are there available for play?


The Name - E.C.H.O. is kinda like "Century" in the "Century: Spice Road" game. Initially, the game will be available via Thingyverse for 3d miniatures, and we'll see where it goes from there. The hope is that we can use the same miniatures for multiple games, of which "War of the Ravaged" is the first. The rest of the game is via cards and should be easy to print out. I've heard it described as the ultimate PnP. If it does well enough, we'll see what we do w/ it next.

Dimensional Faction - Poor word choice. Was trying too hard. Thanks for catching.

Ever-encroaching worm - Poor word choice again. Again, thanks.

Number of dimensions - Their is a total of 5 (6 if you count the Worm's dimension). You don't fight the worm - it's closer to a natural disaster that just shows up and messes up your plans. You can invade its dimension to steal back resources, but that's a difficult situation. The game revolves around getting the resources you need in order to win the game.

Number of playable factions - 2 currently. We hope to add more if the demand is there.
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Fertessa
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warrenfitz45 wrote:
First, thanks for all the help. Here's my shortened version. I'll also attempt to answer any questions that seemed to want an answer (as opposed to just a rhetorical that was meant to make me think deeper). If I miss your question, feel free to highlight it.

-------------------------------

Defend your faction’s home dimension from the Ravager Worm. But with limited resources, only one dimension will survive. Build your deck via auction on the black market or invasion of other dimensions to “convince” enemy Defenders to join your side through dice-based combat where bad rolls don’t always hurt you. Utilize each of your three Champion’s unique powers to increase your chance of success. Collect the resources and manage your hand to activate an ancient device that will permanently keep the Ravager worm at bay, saving your dimension.





I think this is a start, but I believe the order of the words could help convey more information. For example:

'Defend your faction's home from the Ravager Worm by collecting the resources to activate the Ancient Killykill. Using 3 unique Champions, you will travel dimension to dimension doing everything you can to acquire resources. If you can't persuade the other dimensional defenders to your cause, try your hand at the auction house or dice-based combat. Time is short and resources are limited. Do you have what it takes to help your faction survive?


This blurb may not convey the intent of your story. It was just my interpretation of what your original blurb gave me. Reordering and combining certain words give a stronger impression.

Also, is it more important that you save your faction or save your dimension? Sure, saving the dimension would save your faction, but the motivators are different. One makes you an altruistic hero and the other a strong leader who may or may not be evil/selfish (seeing as you doomed all other dimensions you invaded)

Edit: Also if you want E.C.H.O to be the series and the 2nd part the title, then I would just use the 2nd part when referencing the game. IF people refer to the games, the E.C.H.O part will be assumed when you mention the 2nd, longer title.
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Warren Fitzpatrick
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Attempt #3 (or 4):

The Ravager worm threatens your entire dimension with imminent extinction. Your only hope rests in sending your mightiest Champions to gather the resources needed to reignite an ancient barrier. But the dreaded Ravager does not only threaten your dimension, but all the multiverse, and only one will acquire the resources necessary to survive.

Blind bid at the black market to get allies into your deck, then fill out the rest by invading other dimensions to “convince” enemy Defenders to join your side through dice-based combat where bad rolls don’t always hurt you. Use your Champion’s unique powers to increase your chance of success to collect the resources. Manage your hand to shield your dimension from the Ravager’s incursions and end the War of the Ravaged.

Shintotchi wrote:

Also, is it more important that you save your faction or save your dimension? Sure, saving the dimension would save your faction, but the motivators are different. One makes you an altruistic hero and the other a strong leader who may or may not be evil/selfish (seeing as you doomed all other dimensions you invaded)


I've left it open to the player. This is war, and one over limited available resources. I do realize what this is saying, and after discussing it here as well as with the co-creator, I feel even stronger about it. These are Champions, which doesn't make them necessarily heroes anymore than Achilles was a hero for the Greeks against the Trojans. If people ask the questions you have (and you're not the first) - good. I hope that when it counts in reality, those people ask the same questions.

My hope is that as we get further into an actual ECHO line that I can develop these themes further... but that's another story.

Thanks for all the help!

wf
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Fertessa
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Awesome! This attempt is much more understandable. I would still go back to make sure your sentences don't start with But. It would be stronger if you led with The. In the 2nd paragraph, I would break down the first sentence into 2 sentences, as it's still rather long. Maybe a period afer "...allies in your deck" Get rid of then, and start the next sentence at Fill. I would also remove the word imminent from in front of extinction. It detracts from the gravity of extinction, and is unnecessary.
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Warren Fitzpatrick
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Huge thanks to all who offered suggestions. It was immensely helpful!!!

Edit #4:

The Ravager worm threatens your entire dimension with imminent extinction. Your only hope rests in sending your mightiest Champions to gather the resources needed to reignite an ancient barrier. However, the dreaded Ravager does not only threaten your dimension, but all the multiverse, and only one will acquire the resources necessary to survive.

Blind bid at the black market to get allies into your deck. Add to it by invading other dimensions to “convince” enemy Defenders to join your side through dice-based combat where bad rolls don’t always hurt you. Use your Champion’s unique powers to increase your chance of success to collect the resources. Manage your hand to shield your dimension from the Ravager’s incursions and end the War of the Ravaged.

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