Kevin Outlaw
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So, I've had this game for over seven months, and really haven't had a chance to play it properly, because frankly, the rules are a bit of a mess. I submitted a set of questions to the company, got a response to say I would get a response, but then never heard anything more. As I would like to review this game at some point, it would be useful to know more about it, so I thought I would share my questions here. Any ideas?

1. What does the trait "Hand Weapon" really mean? The rules suggest that the trait means you can carry two such weapons (one in each hand). However, there is also a special stat line for "Hand Weapon" in the weapons table, which suggests it might mean you use that stat line when using the weapon in close combat. This is very confusing when you consider something like the Zygon "Electrical Discharge" Adventure Card, which is a ranged weapon which has the "Hand weapon" trait. Does this mean it's a one-handed weapon, or does it mean you can use it in close combat, in which case rather than rolling three attack dice and getting the benefit of the "Energy" trait (as listed on the Adventure card), you instead only roll two dice, as per the melee weapon chart?

2. What does the "Two-handed weapon" trait mean? For example, the "Energy Rifle" Adventure card has that trait, but the trait isn't defined in the glossary. The rules say it means you can't use any other weapons; but the "Energy Rifle" card confuses things even more by saying "Two handed melee weapon" which suggests you can use this gun in melee. I can see how someone could use the butt of the gun in close combat, but what stat line do you use? There is no "two handed melee weapon" listed in the weapons chart, and the "Energy Rifle" only has stats for shooting.

3. What are the real stats for "Zygon Electrical Discharge"? In the weapons chart it's range 6 with 4 attack dice, with the traits "Energy," "Integral," and "Shocked." However, on the Adventure card for the same weapon, it's range 6 with 3 attack dice, with the traits "Short range," "energy," and "Hand weapon."

4. Do Zygons get "Electrical Discharge" as standard? It's listed in the weapons chart as "integral" (the same as dalek disruptors and cybermen cyberguns, but the rules say that if models don't have the weapons depicted, then they don't have them unless you equip an adventure card. If they get them as standard, what's the point of the "Eletrical Discharge" Adventure card?

5. The "Electrical Discharge" card has the wording, "All Zygons in your faction are also equipped with Electrical Discharges". This wording suggests they already have some other kind of weapon equipped, but nothing appears to be listed.

7. Silent, Judoon, and Zygon all have one Adventure card that equips the entire faction with an iconic weapon. If you don't take that Adventure card, does that mean your faction has no weapons of any type? In other words, they can't shoot, and they can only used "Improvised Defence Weapon" in melee? Basically, are these cards mandatory to make the factions useful?

8. If you only have "Improvised Defence Weapon" can you still engage and attack an enemy, or can you only use such a weapon when defending yourself when someone attacks you?

9. What are "Cybermen Shock Gauntlets"? Do they get these as standard? They are not listed on the unit card, or in the faction rules, but they are on the weapon list.

10. Is the "Sontaran blaster" a two-handed melee weapon? In the weapons list it has the trait "two handed" but NOT "two handed melee weapon". Furthermore, on the actual Adventure card, it is only listed as "Energy." There is no mention of hands at all. Is this inconsistency in trait wording, card design, or rules?

11. Is "two handed weapon" the same as "two handed melee weapon"? Can any weapon listed as "hand weapon" or "two handed weapon" or "two handed melee weapon" be used in melee?


I'll admit, I compiled this list a long time ago, so maybe it's treading old ground covered elsewhere. Apologies if that's the case. Thanks in advance to anyone with some insight.
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Kirk Mathes
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Some, but I don't think all, of these have been addressed on the Doctor Who Into the Time Vortex Facebook page. Check that out if you are able. The admins there are pretty good about answering rules questions.

They are making some improvements to the newer cards they are releasing, it looks like things are more clearly stated in the newer stuff.

It took me a bit to get this to the table too because all of the questions I had just made my head swim after a while.

I think the key thing I learned to just enjoy it was not to worry about the rules ambiguities, and play it how it seems right to you. At least you're having fun with it that way. And the big concepts are pretty well defined.

That said, it's harder for some of us to do, I personally enjoy playing by well-defined rules, and exploring the nuances of them. And as such, I haven't even played this in the last couple months. Though I keenly follow it, hoping for a conclusive FAQ to be published, or better yet, revised rules and cards.
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Kevin Outlaw
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Yagami 225 wrote:
Some, but I don't think all, of these have been addressed on the Doctor Who Into the Time Vortex Facebook page. Check that out if you are able. The admins there are pretty good about answering rules questions.

They are making some improvements to the newer cards they are releasing, it looks like things are more clearly stated in the newer stuff.

It took me a bit to get this to the table too because all of the questions I had just made my head swim after a while.

I think the key thing I learned to just enjoy it was not to worry about the rules ambiguities, and play it how it seems right to you. At least you're having fun with it that way. And the big concepts are pretty well defined.

That said, it's harder for some of us to do, I personally enjoy playing by well-defined rules, and exploring the nuances of them. And as such, I haven't even played this in the last couple months. Though I keenly follow it, hoping for a conclusive FAQ to be published, or better yet, revised rules and cards.


Thanks for that, I'll take a quick look; but I don't really want to plough through a Facebook page looking for disparate answers. Playing a game should never feel like work, and a designer needs to be able to make their product more accessible than that.

A FAQ would be very useful, and considering this game's been out for the best part of a year, there really should be one.

There are just so many questions at the moment, I don't even know where to begin, and that's a real shame, because I was really looking forward to playing this.

If nothing is forthcoming soon, I'm going to end up reviewing it as-is, and I'd rather not do that.
 
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Roger Gerrish
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1,2) I can understand the confusion, however going forward terms like hand weapon, two handed weapon etc will in future refer to how the weapon will perform as a melee weapon. So improvised Weapon = +1, hand weapon = +2 and two handed weapon = +3. So an energy rifle used in melee would give +3
The new cards now have the weapon stats on the back and the old cards originally released in the boxed set will receive this upgrade and be availble in the miniature boxes and as a downloadable PDF.
Zygon Energy Discharge will now be an integral weapon and will be listed on the back of the card. I’m going to put a master weapons table up on the new Warlord DW web page which will make this all clearer.

3,4,5)All zygons have a shooting entry of zygon electrical Discharge, Range 6 Dice 3, traits Short-ranged,Restraint, Integral.
All Zygons have a Melee factor of Hand weapon C 2 no traits. all zygons are assumed to be so armed and the Adventure card can be discounted.

7) All Judoon should be considered to have an Executioner Pistol, Silece and Zygon an Electrical discharge. The Adventure card Id was not a good idea.

8) improvised weapon +1 can be used to attack and defend with in melee.

9) Shock Gauntlets should equip all Cybermen, however if you take the benefit the attack can only shock. if you want to ecterminate an opponent the attack is made without the shock glove +2.

10) Sontaran Blaster is an energy weapon when used for shooting, and a 2 handed weapon C +3 if used in melee [no energy trait used as a club)

11) As prevoiusly noted ....we are no longer using the concept of how many weapons a character can hold.....the terms will now refer to their effectivness in Melee.

I hope this helps and if you have any queries or additional questions on the above then please post them.

Finally sorry to have taken so much time to reply, I have only been recently notified of your questions.



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Kevin Outlaw
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Harikaridog wrote:
1,2) I can understand the confusion, however going forward terms like hand weapon, two handed weapon etc will in future refer to how the weapon will perform as a melee weapon. So improvised Weapon = +1, hand weapon = +2 and two handed weapon = +3. So an energy rifle used in melee would give +3
The new cards now have the weapon stats on the back and the old cards originally released in the boxed set will receive this upgrade and be availble in the miniature boxes and as a downloadable PDF.
Zygon Energy Discharge will now be an integral weapon and will be listed on the back of the card. I’m going to put a master weapons table up on the new Warlord DW web page which will make this all clearer.

3,4,5)All zygons have a shooting entry of zygon electrical Discharge, Range 6 Dice 3, traits Short-ranged,Restraint, Integral.
All Zygons have a Melee factor of Hand weapon C 2 no traits. all zygons are assumed to be so armed and the Adventure card can be discounted.

7) All Judoon should be considered to have an Executioner Pistol, Silece and Zygon an Electrical discharge. The Adventure card Id was not a good idea.

8) improvised weapon +1 can be used to attack and defend with in melee.

9) Shock Gauntlets should equip all Cybermen, however if you take the benefit the attack can only shock. if you want to ecterminate an opponent the attack is made without the shock glove +2.

10) Sontaran Blaster is an energy weapon when used for shooting, and a 2 handed weapon C +3 if used in melee [no energy trait used as a club)

11) As prevoiusly noted ....we are no longer using the concept of how many weapons a character can hold.....the terms will now refer to their effectivness in Melee.

I hope this helps and if you have any queries or additional questions on the above then please post them.

Finally sorry to have taken so much time to reply, I have only been recently notified of your questions.





Thanks Roger, that's really helpful. And fast too! I only spoke to your (very cool) Facebook team yesterday about this.

I'm looking forward to a new consolidated weapons list, and the FAQ. I think this has the potential to be a really fun game (with incredible miniatures), and it was a real shame my initial enthusiasm was dampened by not being able to get the rules pinned down.

Thanks again.
 
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Kevin Outlaw
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Harikaridog wrote:

I hope this helps and if you have any queries or additional questions on the above then please post them.



I'm actually getting myself in the weeds a bit now. I have a few more queries:

1. Under fire tokens - page 5 says one token stops you shooting, but page 13 says one token stops you moving. I'm assuming the latter is correct?

2. Adventure cards - I'm not really sure I'm doing them right. So...
2.a. Do weapons get equipped to a specific model (e.g. the "sword" card)? If so, do you reveal it at the start of the game, or do you place it on display next to the unit card? Do you play it from hand like a surprise? If so, is it discarded after use? If you attach it to a unit card of several models, do all of the models get the benefit, or do you have to pick a single character from that card? Can you equip weapons to anything, even if it doesn't make sense (cybermats with swords)?
2.b. When, exactly, do you play adventure cards? Do you have a hidden hand, or do you put them all on display at the start of the game. The language of them is confusing me. Some examples:
- Partial regeneration says, "When used, this card remains in play." So, is this played from a hand of cards?
- Allons-y says, "Discard this card," so is that discarded from a hand, or does it already have to be in play? Because...
- "I fought in a bigger war than you will ever know" says "play this card at the beginning of the game."
- Adjust Time says "exhaust this card" so does it already have to be in play? Should it already be in play from the start of the game? Or do I exhaust it from my hand and then leave it on the table for the rest of the game? I understand the concept of exhausting a card, just not clear on how to get the card into play to start with.
- Reinforcement cards - Don't specify a condition. Are they played from hand when required, or do you put them in play from the start (basically getting an extra "free" unit card)? If you play them any time, where do the reinforcements arrive?
- And as already mentioned, weapons don't specify any condition for playing them, so I assume they're always in play.

3. Hold Back rule - This rule says "If within engaging distance, a character with this trait can move up to two inches in any direction to avoid an engagement." I'm assuming this is bad wording, and you have to have the initiative to use this ability? If it was an interrupt used in response to someone trying to engage with you, you'd never be able to be attacked as you would always just move away.

4. The turn order seems to mean that two characters advancing towards each other will both always get a round of shooting on each other before engaging (assuming they have ranged weapons), as you move, then shoot, then engage. Do you need LOS to engage an enemy? For example, can you move out from behind a wall to get the drop on them so they don't have a chance to shoot you first? If so, do you measure engagement as the distance you would travel around the object, or the distance through the obstacle? If you must have LOS aren't melee units at a disadvantage as it's impossible to charge a unit in this game before they get a chance to shoot at you?

5. How do obstacles and the engaging rule interact? If two characters are on opposite sides of an obstacle (bases touching the obstacle), can they engage across it? Can you move over an obstacle to engage an enemy if 2 inches is enough to get to the other side? If so, do you roll to see if you can climb?

6. Fear Not rule - This rule says the character ignores the effects of the first Under Fire token. Is the character still limited to a max of two such tokens, or can it take a third? If it's limited to two, what does the second token do? Does it restrict both movement and shooting, the same as always?

Sorry for all the questions. I don't think spreading the rules over three books has worked out well for me :S

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
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Maik L.
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Late comment: This games rulebook is really a fountain of questions and vague wording. Argggh!
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