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Subject: The expressions of a thousand words rss

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Mike Pence's face may curdle.

Carson Jones is throwing some serious side eye.

https://www.advocate.com/politics/2018/1/03/mike-pence-swear...

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J J
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Seems rather restrained when face-to-face with someone who thinks him less-than-human...
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JasonJ0 wrote:
Seems rather restrained when face-to-face with someone who thinks him less-than-human...


Yeah, but Pence is a class act and didn't let it get to him much.
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Jythier wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
Seems rather restrained when face-to-face with someone who thinks him less-than-human...


Yeah, but Pence is a class act and didn't let it get to him much.


I know you were joking somewhat, but there's a world of difference in thinking less of someone because of what they do instead of because of who they are.
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Possibly, but I tend to think most Christians are against homosexual activity rather than homosexual people, which is a thing they do, not who they are. Pence probably is the same way but based on the legislation he's brought you could make a much better case that he is against homosexuals... except the way the media reports things is so biased that if he passed, say, legislation allowing people to refuse to service gay marriages in accordance with their religious belief, they would probably report it as "legislation letting people discriminate against homosexuals" instead of, of course, 'something someone's doing'.
 
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Jythier wrote:
Possibly, but I tend to think most Christians are against homosexual activity rather than homosexual people, which is a thing they do, not who they are. Pence probably is the same way but based on the legislation he's brought you could make a much better case that he is against homosexuals... except the way the media reports things is so biased that if he passed, say, legislation allowing people to refuse to service gay marriages in accordance with their religious belief, they would probably report it as "legislation letting people discriminate against homosexuals" instead of, of course, 'something someone's doing'.


Remember Pence as governor of Indiana presided over and signed various anti-gay bills and policies. Side-eye is justified.
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Weren't those religious freedom bills?
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Jythier wrote:
Weren't those religious freedom bills?


You mean "freedom to discriminate against people I don't like while claiming that not letting me do so would discriminate against my religion bills", then yes, they were.
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Jythier wrote:
Weren't those religious freedom bills?
The problem is that no one is forcing people to take on careers where they will have to treat all people equally. There are plenty of life paths that allow you to not interact with people in ways that allow their sins "rub off" on you. Why should gay people have to suffer because a Christian decides to take on their God's job of judgment? Plank in eye syndrome is no defense for bigotry.

Is spending inordinate amounts of money, often times incurring sizable debt, on the pomp and circumstance of a Western wedding instead of aiding the poor and downtrodden really a hand-waivable offense in comparison? That's why humans are incapable of judging each other, they are imperfect. People shouldn't suffer because imperfect people think they "know better".
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A person can be a homo/heterosexual without actually having sex. I can attest to this personally. Claiming otherwise is just rationalization.
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batman wrote:
A person can be a homo/heterosexual without actually having sex. I can attest to this personally. Claiming otherwise is just rationalization.


It's not a smidgen better to only "disapprove" of gay sex instead of people being gay, that's just the Catholic Church's form of being a bigot.
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I don't understand the mass delusion that marriage has always been between two people, as if it wasn't a law that defined it as between a man and a woman less than 10 years ago.
 
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Jythier wrote:
Possibly, but I tend to think most Christians are against homosexual activity rather than homosexual people, which is a thing they do, not who they are. Pence probably is the same way but based on the legislation he's brought you could make a much better case that he is against homosexuals... except the way the media reports things is so biased that if he passed, say, legislation allowing people to refuse to service gay marriages in accordance with their religious belief, they would probably report it as "legislation letting people discriminate against homosexuals" instead of, of course, 'something someone's doing'.

And Jythier is spouting bigotry as usual. If you against gay people having sex then you are against gay people. It's that simple.
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DavidDearlove wrote:
Jythier wrote:
Possibly, but I tend to think most Christians are against homosexual activity rather than homosexual people, which is a thing they do, not who they are. Pence probably is the same way but based on the legislation he's brought you could make a much better case that he is against homosexuals... except the way the media reports things is so biased that if he passed, say, legislation allowing people to refuse to service gay marriages in accordance with their religious belief, they would probably report it as "legislation letting people discriminate against homosexuals" instead of, of course, 'something someone's doing'.

And Jythier is spouting bigotry as usual. If you against gay people having sex then you are against gay people. It's that simple.


I thought there was a world of difference in thinking less of someone because of what they do instead of because of who they are.
 
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Not that I'm thinking less of anyone personally, mind you, but just showing the hypocrisy here where the rule applies only to your own positions favorably and to others disfavorably, as usual.
 
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Jythier wrote:
I don't understand the mass delusion that marriage has always been between two people, as if it wasn't a law that defined it as between a man and a woman less than 10 years ago.

Well marriage has been between a man and a woman in the cultural area you live in for hundreds of years, until recently when it has become between two adults. (Except for a few Mormons who were pariahs and had to abandon the practice to re-enter civilisation.)
So what do you mean? Are you talking about the bronze age religion you like or other irrelevant issues?
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Jythier wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Jythier wrote:
Possibly, but I tend to think most Christians are against homosexual activity rather than homosexual people, which is a thing they do, not who they are. Pence probably is the same way but based on the legislation he's brought you could make a much better case that he is against homosexuals... except the way the media reports things is so biased that if he passed, say, legislation allowing people to refuse to service gay marriages in accordance with their religious belief, they would probably report it as "legislation letting people discriminate against homosexuals" instead of, of course, 'something someone's doing'.

And Jythier is spouting bigotry as usual. If you against gay people having sex then you are against gay people. It's that simple.


I thought there was a world of difference in thinking less of someone because of what they do instead of because of who they are.

So you obviously think that gay people are "who they are" but you disapprove when they want to actually act is if "who they are" matters. This is something betweem consenting adults that harms you not one jot. What gives you that right? Pretty shitty meddling in other people's lives like that isn't it?
And I tend to measure people by how they act rather than who they are as I can't see inside people's minds.
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Jythier wrote:
I thought there was a world of difference in thinking less of someone because of what they do instead of because of who they are.
There is a difference between who you are and SOME of what you do. If you do something because of what you are and it is an intrinsic part of your nature, then the only reason you should be judged for it is if it has negative consequences on those you are doing it to. Two people performing consensual, informed acts predicated by who they are, shouldn't be used as a judgment point for them because you are essentially judging them for who they are.

How does "hate the sin, not the sinner" work when the "sin" is built into the "sinner"? You have to base the assumption that they are simply making a "choice" and are not actually created the way they are to be the way they are. We can't base society on one religions ideas of who someone is and what drives their choices and in a society of alleged equality we can't use those "standards" to ostracize others.

For example, I can think less of someone for choosing to be Christian, because they didn't emerge from the womb that way. It is a cultural overlay on someone's personality. Being gay or black or white or short or tall or bald or handicapped has no basis in choice.
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DavidDearlove wrote:

So you obviously


Nope.
 
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TheChin! wrote:
Jythier wrote:
I thought there was a world of difference in thinking less of someone because of what they do instead of because of who they are.
There is a difference between who you are and SOME of what you do. If you do something because of what you are and it is an intrinsic part of your nature, then the only reason you should be judged for it is if it has negative consequences on those you are doing it to. Two people performing consensual, informed acts predicated by who they are, shouldn't be used as a judgment point for them because you are essentially judging them for who they are.

How does "hate the sin, not the sinner" work when the "sin" is built into the "sinner"? You have to base the assumption that they are simply making a "choice" and are not actually created the way they are to be the way they are. We can't base society on one religions ideas of who someone is and what drives their choices and in a society of alleged equality we can't use those "standards" to ostracize others.

For example, I can think less of someone for choosing to be Christian, because they didn't emerge from the womb that way. It is a cultural overlay on someone's personality. Being gay or black or white or short or tall or bald or handicapped has no basis in choice.


You are speaking as if sin isn't built into every person ever.
 
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Loving people means leaving them in sin... I doubt God agrees with that definition.

Loving people means 'just let them do whatever they want'... that was actually God's punishment on people iirc. God abandoned them to their own devices and after years they figured out everything sucked and sought God again. And as you point out, it's not up to me to punish people.

I don't understand why you would quote scripture but twist the meaning to be so insane.
 
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Jythier wrote:
TheChin! wrote:
Jythier wrote:
I thought there was a world of difference in thinking less of someone because of what they do instead of because of who they are.
There is a difference between who you are and SOME of what you do. If you do something because of what you are and it is an intrinsic part of your nature, then the only reason you should be judged for it is if it has negative consequences on those you are doing it to. Two people performing consensual, informed acts predicated by who they are, shouldn't be used as a judgment point for them because you are essentially judging them for who they are.

How does "hate the sin, not the sinner" work when the "sin" is built into the "sinner"? You have to base the assumption that they are simply making a "choice" and are not actually created the way they are to be the way they are. We can't base society on one religions ideas of who someone is and what drives their choices and in a society of alleged equality we can't use those "standards" to ostracize others.

For example, I can think less of someone for choosing to be Christian, because they didn't emerge from the womb that way. It is a cultural overlay on someone's personality. Being gay or black or white or short or tall or bald or handicapped has no basis in choice.


You are speaking as if sin isn't built into every person ever.

Well I reject the concept of sin. So I deny it is built into people.
You have a religious code where you think some things are sinful that I don't think are immoral.
So what gives you the right to impose that on others?
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Jythier wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:

So you obviously


Nope.

Argument isn't just contradiction. Explain why I am wrong.
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Jythier wrote:
You are speaking as if sin isn't built into every person ever.
The abilities to be selfish and selfless seem to be instincts we all share, to certain extents in various degrees. That is the about the most basic you get on "sin". Pretty much all other bad and good is based on these two conditions, where free choice is concerned. To be judged for sin requires free choice by the sinner. Is being made biologically predisposed to an action free choice? Fighting our biology to prevent harm to others is good. What good comes from fighting our biology when nothing negative happens to others? Why is it wrong? And how does judging people who don't and shunning them for it become "good"?
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DavidDearlove wrote:
Jythier wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:

So you obviously


Nope.

Argument isn't just contradiction. Explain why I am wrong.


Your post assumed facts not in evidence. I don't have to put up with that. Why read the rest when it was built on a faulty premise?
 
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