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Subject: Question about killing blow credit for Mindthief (lvl 2 card spoiler inside) rss

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Cmdr Salamander
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I know that a character receives credit for their summons kills. What about the following?

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Hostile Takeover of an enemy, and then the enemy kills another enemy on their turn.

I suspect the answer is "no credit", but thought I'd ask since a battle goal hangs in the balance .
 
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Alexander Steinbach
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I'd say that would count as a kill credit. Every kill made as a direct result of you using an ability card should count towards your total kill count, in my opinion.
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Mauro Moura
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Im not sure if there's an official rulling on this but I'd say it counts as a kill for the mindthief, it was his action that resulted in the kill in the end.
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Jay Johnson
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sidenote: the FAQ specifically says that if a monster dies as a result of damage from the Wound status, no one is credited with the kill (even though most of the time, it was a character action that inflicted the Wound status).
But this makes sense as the wound damage doesn't occur on any particular player's turn and giving credit in that case would involve extra paperwork of recording the source of each Wound status whenever Wound was inflicted.
 
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Matt Rossi
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From what I've read, Mindthief abilities forcing enemies to act give kill credit to the Mindthief, but abilities that grant extra actions to allies give them credit since they are in control of the action.

The game has a tendency to give credit to the person who had ownership of the action that caused the death. Player-owned summons credit their owner with the kill, traps that kill enemies credit a player if it was activated as a result of a player-controlled action (Such as pushing them or pulling them), etc.

The only "conflict" I see with this logic is that the Wound status effect does not grant kill credit to the person that caused it, which makes sense to me, but it's worth mentioning.


Edit: That being said, I'm unsure if there's a meaningful difference between forcing an enemy to act and forcing the enemy to take an extra turn as an ally instead of an enemy.


As per below, Apparently nobody gets credit if a mind-controlled enemy kills another enemy.
 
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Alex Florin
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This was ruled on but didn't make it into the FAQ. I'll add it.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25009793#25009793
 
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Alexander Steinbach
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aflorin wrote:
This was ruled on but didn't make it into the FAQ. I'll add it.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25009793#25009793


So, it's not then?

That is certainly weird. Especially as the mindthief is supposedly a master of mindcontrolling other characters. Isn't the mindthief the one controlling the action?
 
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Cmdr Salamander
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aflorin wrote:
This was ruled on but didn't make it into the FAQ. I'll add it.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25009793#25009793


Thanks. From that thread, Isaac's official ruling is "Yes, I guess that would be correct". Not exactly emphatic, but I guess no battle-goal for me.
 
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Scott Burns
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galaxyrise wrote:
aflorin wrote:
This was ruled on but didn't make it into the FAQ. I'll add it.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25009793#25009793


Thanks. From that thread, Isaac's official ruling is "Yes, I guess that would be correct". Not exactly emphatic, but I guess no battle-goal for me.


They way the question was worded in that thread was also leading - i.e. "I'm assuming this is the case - is that right?" If I were you I'd count it regardless of the "official FAQ" ruling...
 
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Jay Johnson
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I plan on playing it as the mindthief getting credit
makes more thematic sense to me, and it isn't like this unbalances the game
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Mauro Moura
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Vardaine wrote:
aflorin wrote:
This was ruled on but didn't make it into the FAQ. I'll add it.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25009793#25009793


So, it's not then?

That is certainly weird. Especially as the mindthief is supposedly a master of mindcontrolling other characters. Isn't the mindthief the one controlling the action?


I find this card very wierd, it specifically states you are the one controlling the action and yet you are suposed to use the monsters modfier deck and you don't get credit for kills.
 
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Jay Johnson
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DakonBlackblade wrote:
Vardaine wrote:
aflorin wrote:
This was ruled on but didn't make it into the FAQ. I'll add it.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25009793#25009793


So, it's not then?

That is certainly weird. Especially as the mindthief is supposedly a master of mindcontrolling other characters. Isn't the mindthief the one controlling the action?


I find this card very wierd, it specifically states you are the one controlling the action and yet you are suposed to use the monsters modfier deck and you don't get credit for kills.

using the monsters mod deck makes sense to me, as the monster is using its own abilities.
Plus, the Mindthief isn't really controlling the action, it is only switching which group is considered the target monster's allies and enemies. You don't get to choose where it moves or who it attacks/heals/etc. It follows the same AI as one of your summons would.
 
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Jay Johnson
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If this card is used on a monster, will the other monsters still treat that monster as an ally for that round, or as an enemy?

Thematically, it is essentially the MindThief temporarily planting a mental suggestion that causes the monster to confuse who is who. Prior to their actual action (of attacking another monster or whatever), none of the other monsters would know that they had been affected that way, so it would make sense for them to consider that monster an ally for all turns prior to that monster's actions. But what about after? Obviously they would be suspicious of that individual until that monster was able to explain the mental intrusion, but that is hard to translate into game mechanics.

Probably for simiplicity's sake, it would be easiest to rule that it doesn't effect how other monsters would act toward that individual (other than any Retaliate reactions would trigger if attacked by the Hostility Takenover monster)
 
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