Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Apocrypha Adventure Card Game» Forums » News

Subject: Rules update/rewrite coming later this year rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
C Sandifer
United States
Lutherville
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
For those of you who aren't notified of the KS updates (like me), a rules cleanup is coming later this year:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/loneshark/the-apocrypha...

It won't be a complete rulebook overhaul, I don't think, but it sounds like clarifications will be made and additional examples will be inserted.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Boehm
United States
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
wkover wrote:
For those of you who aren't notified of the KS updates (like me), a rules cleanup is coming later this year:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/loneshark/the-apocrypha...

It won't be a complete rulebook overhaul, I don't think, but it sounds like clarifications will be made and additional examples will be inserted.


I was a late backer so I didn't see that update, so thanks for posting. I messaged them to ask if this will be included as printed with the next wave of the game or 3rd wave if that is needed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Sandifer
United States
Lutherville
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gambit001 wrote:
I messaged them to ask if this will be included as printed with the next wave of the game or 3rd wave if that is needed.


The update mentioned that the rules update would be posted to the Lone Shark website. I don't think there will be a physical reprinting, but I could be wrong. Perhaps when the base set is eventually reprinted?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Neil Edmonds
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Do you need more card ideas for the D&D Adventure System games?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's just going to be made available digitally.

It's possible if there was another print run because the first one sold out, Lone Shark might use the new rule book similar to what happened with Pathfinder Rise of the Runelords; but this hypothesis hasn't been confirmed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Selinker
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wkover wrote:
Gambit001 wrote:
I messaged them to ask if this will be included as printed with the next wave of the game or 3rd wave if that is needed.


The update mentioned that the rules update would be posted to the Lone Shark website. I don't think there will be a physical reprinting, but I could be wrong. Perhaps when the base set is eventually reprinted?


I expect we will put the physical version of the new rulebook into the base set when the base set is reprinted. We'll likely make the call on base set reprints not long after The Flesh and The Devil release.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Boehm
United States
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
mike selinker wrote:
wkover wrote:
Gambit001 wrote:
I messaged them to ask if this will be included as printed with the next wave of the game or 3rd wave if that is needed.


The update mentioned that the rules update would be posted to the Lone Shark website. I don't think there will be a physical reprinting, but I could be wrong. Perhaps when the base set is eventually reprinted?


I expect we will put the physical version of the new rulebook into the base set when the base set is reprinted. We'll likely make the call on base set reprints not long after The Flesh and The Devil release.


Aww I was hoping you might include a copy of it with the Devil
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
King Maple
Estonia
Tallinn
Harjumaa
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gambit001 wrote:
mike selinker wrote:
wkover wrote:
Gambit001 wrote:
I messaged them to ask if this will be included as printed with the next wave of the game or 3rd wave if that is needed.


The update mentioned that the rules update would be posted to the Lone Shark website. I don't think there will be a physical reprinting, but I could be wrong. Perhaps when the base set is eventually reprinted?


I expect we will put the physical version of the new rulebook into the base set when the base set is reprinted. We'll likely make the call on base set reprints not long after The Flesh and The Devil release.


Aww I was hoping you might include a copy of it with the Devil


Same here. It would make sense.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt D
United States
Tacoma
Washington
flag msg tools
Slashdoctor wrote:
Gambit001 wrote:
mike selinker wrote:
wkover wrote:
Gambit001 wrote:
I messaged them to ask if this will be included as printed with the next wave of the game or 3rd wave if that is needed.


The update mentioned that the rules update would be posted to the Lone Shark website. I don't think there will be a physical reprinting, but I could be wrong. Perhaps when the base set is eventually reprinted?


I expect we will put the physical version of the new rulebook into the base set when the base set is reprinted. We'll likely make the call on base set reprints not long after The Flesh and The Devil release.


Aww I was hoping you might include a copy of it with the Devil


Same here. It would make sense.

Agreed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Sandifer
United States
Lutherville
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Slashdoctor wrote:
Gambit001 wrote:
Aww I was hoping you might include a copy of it with the Devil


Same here. It would make sense.


Well... it makes sense except a new rulebook might not fit in the Devil box (which could be smaller) and would cost Lone Shark additional money to print.

Lone Shark will already be laying out extra cash if the two upcoming expansions ship separately, rather than together.

So as much as I'd love a new physical copy, electronic is fine for me.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Who Am I?
Canada
New Brunswick
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
wkover wrote:
Slashdoctor wrote:
Gambit001 wrote:
Aww I was hoping you might include a copy of it with the Devil


Same here. It would make sense.


Well... it makes sense except a new rulebook might not fit in the Devil box (which could be smaller) and would cost Lone Shark additional money to print.

Lone Shark will already be laying out extra cash if the two upcoming expansions ship separately, rather than together.

So as much as I'd love a new physical copy, electronic is fine for me.


Agreed on all counts. The rules really need to be improved - as released, they simply aren't good enough. As long as that improvement is happening then I'm happy, even if they update is only available digitally.

---

Does Lone Shark sell individual parts? If the updated rules are significantly better than I'd certainly be willing to pay for a professionally printed copy.

That said, I'd rather read the "improved" digital version before spending any more money on the game, to be sure the problems I had really do get fixed. If they are just making a few clarifications, that might not be sufficient.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Max Maloney
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason." -Jack Handey
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wkover wrote:
Well... it...would cost Lone Shark additional money to print.

Contrary wise, this is by far my most overdue Kickstarter, now approaching two full years late on an initial estimate of 11 months delivery. Delays happen and that’s fine, but they could throw us a rulebook out of good will for holding our money for three years.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Sandifer
United States
Lutherville
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I guess I don't see the issue. Why kill trees and spend money when an electronic copy is fine? I know that people appreciate a physical product - me perhaps more than anyone - but I'm trying to get my head out of the 1900s.

As a side note, living rulebooks are standard practice in the wargaming community. Electronic-only, though - not physical replacements sent out to original owners. This is a natural consequence of producing nontrivial games with complicated rulesets.

Though some wargame designers issue reams of errata/clarifications instead. With Apocrypha, I'm just happy for a rulebook update at all.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Who Am I?
Canada
New Brunswick
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
wkover wrote:

As a side note, living rulebooks are standard practice in the wargaming community. Electronic-only, though - not physical replacements sent out to original owners. This is a natural consequence of producing nontrivial games with complicated rulesets.


When I was wargaming, the rules were often text heavy and involved very little in the way of images or special formatting outside of (maybe) a few tables. That made living rules easier because printing your own copy was much cheaper/easier.

That might have changed by now though - I think graphic design (for game components, but likely also for rulebooks) has come a long way for wargames over the past decade.

Quote:

Though some wargame designers issue reams of errata/clarifications instead. With Apocrypha, I'm just happy for a rulebook update at all.


Agreed!

The big issue for me is quality of the rules, not the delivery method. Lone Shark need to make the game easier to learn/teach/play than how it stands now.



My advice to Lone Shark: Don't cut corners regarding effort spent on a rulebook revamp. Get some feedback from people who don't already know how to play the game. Get some feedback from people who tried to learn the game from the existing rules and failed and/or gave up. This is hugely important issue, and will determine if Apocrypha is a great game or something people like me regret buying.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Sandifer
United States
Lutherville
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
oneiric wrote:
The big issue for me is quality of the rules, not the delivery method. Lone Shark need to make the game easier to learn/teach/play than how it stands now.


I have the same advice for Apocrypha as I do for Pathfinder, actually. The latest iteration of the Pathfinder rulebook (many years in the making) is extremely thorough and comprehensive, but for precisely that reason it sometimes falls short as a teaching aid.

Having played Pathfinder a zillion times, I now recognize that the rulebook attempts to address all possible edge cases while simultaneously teaching the basics. That's not the best approach, I don't think.

For me, the Eldritch Horror two-book system is the way to go for both Pathfinder and Apocrypha. Book #1: A nice, clear introductory ruleset to teach the fundamentals. Book #2: A separate reference to cover pesky details and edge cases - stuff that a beginner doesn't need to know.

Though the two-book redesign will likely never happen, since it would take hundreds of hours to write, edit, and produce. But since Apocrypha seems like a continuous stream-of-consciousness dreamstate anyway, dreaming out loud seems appropriate.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Selinker
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
oneiric wrote:
My advice to Lone Shark: Don't cut corners regarding effort spent on a rulebook revamp. Get some feedback from people who don't already know how to play the game. Get some feedback from people who tried to learn the game from the existing rules and failed and/or gave up. This is hugely important issue, and will determine if Apocrypha is a great game or something people like me regret buying.


It took us a couple months after Pathfinder was released to work through the issues in the Rise of the Runelords rulebook, and more than six months from release to issue a new rulebook PDF, and I think about a year and a half to get it into the next printing. That's probably a schedule similar to where we are now. We want to get everything for The Devil done and then see where we are. That probably means no printed version with The Devil, but likely the rulebook PDF before that comes back to us from the printer.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Selinker
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wkover wrote:
Though the two-book redesign will likely never happen, since it would take hundreds of hours to write, edit, and produce. But since Apocrypha seems like a continuous stream-of-consciousness dreamstate anyway, dreaming out loud seems appropriate.

I'm not sure the two-rulebook design works for this game, but we are definitely looking at segregating a simpler set of rules somewhere. We'll see where we end up.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.