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Subject: Ranger Hunter or Ranger Beastmaster? rss

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Kevin
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I'm currently a Level 3 Tiefling Ranger with 42 XP. I'm also party leader so I needed to be able to take more hits. Therefore my current spec to give me 11 starting HP is:
Feature Slot 1 - Tough
Feature Slot 2 - Beastmaster

Now looking ahead, I'm unsure how effective the Beastmaster tree is going to be with Ranger's Companion and Bestial Fury...drawing extra cards is nice but being forced to discard/bury the non-basics or not being able to use market card text seems like an awful way to miss out on the effects of powerful cards needed. Maybe I'm missing something.

Hunter on the other hand looks significantly weaker than Beastmaster at first, but it appears to get stronger with Multiattack (B) and of course Superior Hunter. Feral Senses could eventually be obtained either way.

Has anyone out there studied this or have advice on which tree to pursue? Pros and Cons?

Thanks! First post!
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kcurtis wrote:
I'm currently a Level 3 Tiefling Ranger with 42 XP. I'm also party leader so I needed to be able to take more hits. Therefore my current spec to give me 11 starting HP is:
Feature Slot 1 - Tough
Feature Slot 2 - Beastmaster

Now looking ahead, I'm unsure how effective the Beastmaster tree is going to be with Ranger's Companion and Bestial Fury...drawing extra cards is nice but being forced to discard/bury the non-basics or not being able to use market card text seems like an awful way to miss out on the effects of powerful cards needed. Maybe I'm missing something.

Hunter on the other hand looks significantly weaker than Beastmaster at first, but it appears to get stronger with Multiattack (B) and of course Superior Hunter. Feral Senses could eventually be obtained either way.

Has anyone out there studied this or have advice on which tree to pursue? Pros and Cons?

Thanks! First post!


Based on the above, my wife went with the Hunter line, because I remember things like:

Multi Attack plus Colossal Strike
Multi Attack plus Spiritual Weapon
Multi Attack plus Spirit Guardians
Multi Attack plus Big Finish
Multi Attack plus Heroic Charge


That's not a 'con' vote against the BeastMaster stuff, it just means I haven't explored what that line is trying to do (yet).

 
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kcurtis wrote:
I'm currently a Level 3 Tiefling Ranger with 42 XP. I'm also party leader so I needed to be able to take more hits. Therefore my current spec to give me 11 starting HP is:
Feature Slot 1 - Tough
Feature Slot 2 - Beastmaster

Now looking ahead, I'm unsure how effective the Beastmaster tree is going to be with Ranger's Companion and Bestial Fury...drawing extra cards is nice but being forced to discard/bury the non-basics or not being able to use market card text seems like an awful way to miss out on the effects of powerful cards needed. Maybe I'm missing something.

Hunter on the other hand looks significantly weaker than Beastmaster at first, but it appears to get stronger with Multiattack (B) and of course Superior Hunter. Feral Senses could eventually be obtained either way.

Has anyone out there studied this or have advice on which tree to pursue? Pros and Cons?

Thanks! First post!


I had the same reservations about Beastmaster, as someone who consistently plays in a 2 player game; I looked at the Features and found them too limiting/counterintuitive until you get to a pretty high level.

If there were a Feature that let you consistently feed unused funds to other members of your party (since you're likely to keep your deck Basics-heavy), I might feel differently. Being one of four to six players might also make a difference.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
The one extant adventure in which I can readily picture Beastmaster being useful even in a 2 player is Trollclaws, with the sharp reduction in money the party gets overall.
 
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kcurtis wrote:
I'm currently a Level 3 Tiefling Ranger with 42 XP. I'm also party leader so I needed to be able to take more hits. Therefore my current spec to give me 11 starting HP is:
Feature Slot 1 - Tough
Feature Slot 2 - Beastmaster

Now looking ahead, I'm unsure how effective the Beastmaster tree is going to be with Ranger's Companion and Bestial Fury...drawing extra cards is nice but being forced to discard/bury the non-basics or not being able to use market card text seems like an awful way to miss out on the effects of powerful cards needed. Maybe I'm missing something.

Hunter on the other hand looks significantly weaker than Beastmaster at first, but it appears to get stronger with Multiattack (B) and of course Superior Hunter. Feral Senses could eventually be obtained either way.

Has anyone out there studied this or have advice on which tree to pursue? Pros and Cons?

Thanks! First post!


I have gone with the beastmaster spec and once you get both Bestial fury II and Rangers Companion II you can front load good chunk of damage. Yes it sucks if I draw a Hunters Mark/Tower Shield/Command presence as they have very nice text effects.

One question which I just thought of now. Do the Swords on Martial cards count as text effects for the Rangers Companion feature?
 
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Why both of those features at level 2? Wouldn't you want only one of them at level 2? To me they conflict.

As to the question: sword icons aren't text.
 
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Good discussion here, I see what you are saying...maybe the intent was for the Ranger player to make a choice between Bestial Fury II (if you reveal a non-Basic then deal it's damage but you can't use its text) OR Ranger's Companion II (if you reveal a non-Basic then you may discard/bury it)....interesting...



 
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byronczimmer wrote:
Why both of those features at level 2? Wouldn't you want only one of them at level 2? To me they conflict.

As to the question: sword icons aren't text.


Ranger’s Companion II [50 XP]
During your turn, reveal the top card of your deck. If it is a Basic card, play it; otherwise, you may discard it or bury it.

Bestial Fury II [50 XP]
Activate Ranger’s Companion twice per turn. If you reveal a non-Basic card, deal its full damage, but you cannot use its text

@BCZ: I don't see a conflict only a synergy. Example:

1. During your turn you Activate Rangers Companion II. Flip over a card.
2. Its Command Presence which is a non-basic card and thus Bestial Fury II activates and you now have 1 Martial and 1 Colorless damage in your pool (along with 2 swords).
3. Activate Bestial Fury II in order to trigger Rangers Companion II a second time.
4. Flip over a card.
5. Its a Cantrip. As per Rangers Companion II you play this card.

I am guessing what I see as synergy and what you see as rules conflict is in step 2 of the above example. I see it as Bestial Fury II (is you reveal a non-basic...) trumps Rangers Companion II (If it is a non-basic card discard or bury...).

What does everyone think here? If you only discard or bury non-basics as it says in Rangers Companion, when does Bestial Fury every get activated?
 
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Bestial Fury would still proc because it simply says "activate Ranger's Companion twice per turn". It's Bestial Fury II that's in question. Your synergy example above is how I originally read them to work, but now I'm not sure...it does appear they directly conflict each other and may have been intended to be on different branches of the skill tree choices.

Can anyone find official clarification on this?? Great question.
 
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majkmajk wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
Why both of those features at level 2? Wouldn't you want only one of them at level 2? To me they conflict.

As to the question: sword icons aren't text.


Ranger’s Companion II [50 XP]
During your turn, reveal the top card of your deck. If it is a Basic card, play it; otherwise, you may discard it or bury it.

Bestial Fury II [50 XP]
Activate Ranger’s Companion twice per turn. If you reveal a non-Basic card, deal its full damage, but you cannot use its text

@BCZ: I don't see a conflict only a synergy. Example:

1. During your turn you Activate Rangers Companion II. Flip over a card.
2. Its Command Presence which is a non-basic card and thus Bestial Fury II activates and you now have 1 Martial and 1 Colorless damage in your pool (along with 2 swords).
3. Activate Bestial Fury II in order to trigger Rangers Companion II a second time.
4. Flip over a card.
5. Its a Cantrip. As per Rangers Companion II you play this card.

I am guessing what I see as synergy and what you see as rules conflict is in step 2 of the above example. I see it as Bestial Fury II (is you reveal a non-basic...) trumps Rangers Companion II (If it is a non-basic card discard or bury...).

What does everyone think here? If you only discard or bury non-basics as it says in Rangers Companion, when does Bestial Fury every get activated?


Look at the Level I version of each of these abilities.
Quote:

25xp - Bestial Fury: Activate Ranger's Companion x2 per turn.
50xp - Bestial Fury II: Activate Ranger's Companion x2 per turn. If you reveal a non-Basic card, deal its full damage but do not apply its text.
35xp - Ranger's Companion I: DYT: Reveal top []. If Basic, play it. Else: Discard
50xp - Ranger's Companion II: DYT: Reveal top []. If Basic, play it. Else: Discard or Bury


The bolded section on the version II of each ability dictates what to do with non-Basic cards.
Having both puts you in conflict.
You are either going to play non-Basics for damage and no text effects (BF II) or you are going to bury non-Basics to allow you to draw them later (RC II).



 
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Any level 5+ rangers out there that have a tried-and-true Ranger features build to share? Either via the Hunter tree or the Beastmaster tree?
 
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Steve Beeman
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kcurtis wrote:
Any level 5+ rangers...


Current game content caps at level 5! :]
 
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Oh even with 2 expansion packs? Wow didn’t know that. Well 5 then lol
 
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I do not see the Features contradict each other.
In fact, as I read it they synergize in a truly epic way.
Ranger's Companion II: ... otherwise, you may discard or bury it means that (as stated in the rulebook on p.25) you are not forced to chooe either, meaning that you can even leave the card on top of your deck.

Now we get to Bestial Fury, which lets you filter your deck even more.
Bestial Fury II activates twice, AND when you reveal a non-basic card, it lets you deal the damage of the card if it is Non-Basic, regardless of other effects, since it is a forced effect. Note that the damage is dealt, but the card is not played (since it is not stated on the feature that the card is played).
This way, when you reveal a Non-Basic, you first deal the damage and then choose what to do with it.

So, what happens when you have both of the abilities is the following (completing the steps from above):

1. During your turn you Activate Rangers Companion II. Flip over a card.
2. Its Command Presence which is a non-basic card and thus Bestial Fury II activates and you now have 1 Martial and 1 Colorless damage in your pool (along with 2 swords). You choose to neither discard nor bury the card, since it is a "may" ability. The card stays on top of your deck.
3. Activate Bestial Fury II in order to trigger Rangers Companion II a second time.
4. Flip over a card.
5. It is Command presence again. You draw a card for having played 4 swords. The card stays on top of your deck. (So , where is the card at that point? Do you draw the next card or the CP?)

At the end of the turn, you draw 2 cards, one of which is the Command presence (or is it?)

In step 2, you may also choose to bury the card in order to flip a better one the second time. If you reveal basic cards, you are forced to play them, which filters your deck and hopefully gives you a better card to reveal the second time.

Remember that, for 100 + feature slots xp, these abilities generate at least 2 damage each turn, which is not too bad.

So, Hunter or Beasthamster? In my eyes, Hunter is more for tacticians going for the most effective combo with Multiattack, using the ability in just the right moment of a scene.
Beastmaster, on the other hand, deals somewhat random, but consistent damage every turn while filtering your deck. In some cases, it may deal as much as 8 damage in a single turn, which is not too bad.

 
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Sarathas wrote:
I do not see the Features contradict each other.
In fact, as I read it they synergize in a truly epic way.
Ranger's Companion II: ... otherwise, you may discard or bury it means that (as stated in the rulebook on p.25) you are not forced to chooe either, meaning that you can even leave the card on top of your deck.

Now we get to Bestial Fury, which lets you filter your deck even more.
Bestial Fury II activates twice, AND when you reveal a non-basic card, it lets you deal the damage of the card if it is Non-Basic, regardless of other effects, since it is a forced effect. Note that the damage is dealt, but the card is not played (since it is not stated on the feature that the card is played).
This way, when you reveal a Non-Basic, you first deal the damage and then choose what to do with it.

So, what happens when you have both of the abilities is the following (completing the steps from above):

1. During your turn you Activate Rangers Companion II. Flip over a card.
2. Its Command Presence which is a non-basic card and thus Bestial Fury II activates and you now have 1 Martial and 1 Colorless damage in your pool (along with 2 swords). You choose to neither discard nor bury the card, since it is a "may" ability. The card stays on top of your deck.
3. Activate Bestial Fury II in order to trigger Rangers Companion II a second time.
4. Flip over a card.
5. It is Command presence again. You draw a card for having played 4 swords. The card stays on top of your deck. (So , where is the card at that point? Do you draw the next card or the CP?)

At the end of the turn, you draw 2 cards, one of which is the Command presence (or is it?)

In step 2, you may also choose to bury the card in order to flip a better one the second time. If you reveal basic cards, you are forced to play them, which filters your deck and hopefully gives you a better card to reveal the second time.

Remember that, for 100 + feature slots xp, these abilities generate at least 2 damage each turn, which is not too bad.

So, Hunter or Beasthamster? In my eyes, Hunter is more for tacticians going for the most effective combo with Multiattack, using the ability in just the right moment of a scene.
Beastmaster, on the other hand, deals somewhat random, but consistent damage every turn while filtering your deck. In some cases, it may deal as much as 8 damage in a single turn, which is not too bad.



Hmm didn't cross my mind that it could be interpreted like this but that just goes to show that this particular feature combination needs some clarification.

I agree with your take on the Hunter vs BM spec. I personally would rather have a "steady and more predictable" flow of damage every round and therefore I took BM.

As to the question of lvl 5+ hunters. According to the rules you cant advance above level 5 but you can continue to get XP and keep getting more features. I'm at 160-170 xp with my lock/ranger duo and have way more features/combinations I would like to try!
 
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Great responses, lots to think about! Can anyone get us some real clarification on how this all works?
 
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kcurtis wrote:
Great responses, lots to think about! Can anyone get us some real clarification on how this all works?


Only the designers can do that.
 
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Hi All,

Thanks again for the great question. I apologize for the terseness of the language on stickers. We have to use a special shorthand on stickers due to limited space and sometimes this leads to a lack of clarity.

As to the question at hand:

Assuming a Ranger-Beastmaster has the following 2 feats (and Beastmaster as a 3rd):
Bestial Fury II
"Activate Ranger's Companion Feature twice per turn. If you reveal a non-Basic card, deal its full damage but cannot use its text."

Ranger's Companion II
"During your turn, reveal the top card of your deck. If it is a Basic card, play it; otherwise, you may discard or bury it."

Clarifications:
1) You can Activate this once or twice as desired and take actions between the 1st and 2nd activation.
2) After an activation, if you reveal a Basic card you MUST play it.
3) After an activation, if you reveal a non-Basic card it's damage (the number in the upper left corner) becomes dealt (available to be assigned to an encounter in the assign damage phase)
3a) No other part of the card has any effect (although the revealed card is still the source of the damage when checking properties of the damage like color). This means the swords don't get added to the players pool.
3b) You may leave the revealed card at the top of the deck, you may bury the card, or you may discard it.
4) The Ranger's Companion's name is Echo.

Jay Schneider
Designer
D&D: Dragonfire
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Geeborg wrote:
Hi All,

Thanks again for the great question. I apologize for the terseness of the language on stickers. We have to use a special shorthand on stickers due to limited space and sometimes this leads to a lack of clarity.

As to the question at hand:

Assuming a Ranger-Beastmaster has the following 2 feats (and Beastmaster as a 3rd):
Bestial Fury II
"Activate Ranger's Companion Feature twice per turn. If you reveal a non-Basic card, deal its full damage but cannot use its text."

Ranger's Companion II
"During your turn, reveal the top card of your deck. If it is a Basic card, play it; otherwise, you may discard or bury it."

Clarifications:
1) You can Activate this once or twice as desired and take actions between the 1st and 2nd activation.
2) After an activation, if you reveal a Basic card you MUST play it.
3) After an activation, if you reveal a non-Basic card it's damage (the number in the upper left corner) becomes dealt (available to be assigned to an encounter in the assign damage phase)
3a) No other part of the card has any effect (although the revealed card is still the source of the damage when checking properties of the damage like color). This means the swords don't get added to the players pool.
3b) You may leave the revealed card at the top of the deck, you may bury the card, or you may discard it.
4) The Ranger's Companion's name is Echo.

Jay Schneider
Designer
D&D: Dragonfire


Thanks Jay.

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So BCZ, trying to understand, I’m revealing the same card multiple times and potentially not discarding it? Happy for the answer but still confused...
 
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kcurtis wrote:
So BCZ, trying to understand, I’m revealing the same card multiple times and potentially not discarding it? Happy for the answer but still confused...

If you use Ranger's Companion II and you reveal a Basic card, you have to play it immediately, and it then goes in the discard. If you reveal a non-Basic card, your choices are a) leave that non-Basic card on top of the deck, b) discard it, c) bury it.

Adding Bestial Fury II, not only do you get the option of running RCII twice, but any non-Basic card you reveal deals its base damage from the upper left-hand corner of the card. After that, you still have the choices of a) leave it on top of the deck, b) discard it, c) bury it.

Without getting into pedantic levels of detail, here are a couple of examples of what might happen.

1) You use this Feature set and it turns out you had 2 Basic cards on top of your deck, in which case you would have had to play each one, and you now have 2 additional points of damage in your pool, coming from 2 different Basic sources, and you're done.

2) You use this Feature set and it turns out you had 1 Basic card and then a non-Basic card as the top 2 cards of your deck. You would have to play that Basic card for your first run of RCII.

For the second run of RCII, when you reveal the non-Basic card you deal the card's base damage into your damage pool (ignoring text effects). Then, if you want to have that card come into your hand during Replenish (barring the effects of any other Features or cards), leave it on top of the deck. If you want to get rid of it, you can discard it. If you want to see it come back sooner rather than later, bury it.

3) You use this Feature set and it turns out you had a non-Basic card on top of your deck, let's say something unusual like Confusion. The Confusion will add its base, upper-left-hand-corner damage to your damage pool - 2 Arcane from a single source - but the text effects of the card will not be triggered.

You now have the first option of leaving that Confusion on top of your deck, in which case you know Confusion's what you're going to reveal when you run RCII a second time.

If you don't want Confusion to be revealed a second time, you have the other two options of discarding the card or burying it at the bottom of your deck. Maybe you need more Devotion damage instead of Arcane damage, so you want to go fishing for another card you have in your deck, whether it's a Spiritual Weapon or even a Grace. Or maybe you just don't want the Confusion coming into your hand during Replenish, so you discard or bury Confusion.
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kcurtis wrote:
So BCZ, trying to understand, I’m revealing the same card multiple times and potentially not discarding it? Happy for the answer but still confused...


The ruling to me says that 'may discard or bury' is a clause that has a hidden third option (don't have to enact either).

If you do neither - the revealed card then goes back to where it came from.

If you have a Tower Shield on top, that will be very powerful.



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byronczimmer wrote:
The ruling to me says that 'may discard or bury' is a clause that has a hidden third option (don't have to enact either).

If you do neither - the revealed card then goes back to where it came from.

If you have a Tower Shield on top, that will be very powerful.


Why? Black + colorless twice but can’t use text or swords that turn...
 
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kcurtis wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
The ruling to me says that 'may discard or bury' is a clause that has a hidden third option (don't have to enact either).

If you do neither - the revealed card then goes back to where it came from.

If you have a Tower Shield on top, that will be very powerful.


Why? Black + colorless twice but can’t use text or swords that turn...


Any damaging card really.
Knowing a Tower Shield is coming is typically useful knowledge.
 
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Yeah I do see big potential in the Beastmaster tree now!
 
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Cheers Jay for the clarification!

Shame about the swords icons not proccing on the card flip (which my group was using) but good news that you can put a non-basic back on top as a third option to discard and bury (which my group wasn't using). Balances out a bit then imo.
 
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