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Subject: Master Builder scoring or not? rss

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hgzwopjp hgzwopjp
Germany
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Hi, I have a possibly stupid question regarding the 5 master builder 5 (it must be stupid as nobody else has asked it yet...). The rules quite clearly state that you won't get any special yield when you upgrade a tile this way. However, will the new tile be scored as if it was a new tile, that is, will you get money for buildings on the new tile, and will you get money for the markets on the new tile?
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Eric Amick
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hgzwopjp wrote:
Hi, I have a possibly stupid question regarding the 5 master builder 5 (it must be stupid as nobody else has asked it yet...). The rules quite clearly state that you won't get any special yield when you upgrade a tile this way. However, will the new tile be scored as if it was a new tile, that is, will you get money for buildings on the new tile, and will you get money for the markets on the new tile?


Yes. It seems unlikely the only intention is changing the road network at that location in your province.
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Crazy Adam
Canada
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It's not a stupid question as they are not explicit in the rules that you score for the tile as you would when normally building. But I believe that's the intent, certainly.

Also just to clarify, the rules say that you don't score any special Yield's again. So if you haven't gain the benefits of a Yield yet and the new tile now connects to it, you would be able to gain the benefit.
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Eric Amick
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freechinanow wrote:
It's not a stupid question as they are not explicit in the rules that you score for the tile as you would when normally building. But I believe that's the intent, certainly.

Also just to clarify, the rules say that you don't score any special Yield's again. So if you haven't gain the benefits of a Yield yet and the new tile now connects to it, you would be able to gain the benefit.


Actually, the German rules are clear that you don't score the yield at all. It's a bad translation to English.
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MeepleofaMan
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Concord
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Thanks to your question I now realize the value of the master builder. I had thought it was only good for fixing road connections, and therefore of minimal value. But if you score the buildings I can see it valuable if you don't have enough dice to purchase a tile outright but use the master builder to buy it cheaper. This would be useful in a close end game when trying to squeeze out some extra Fame.
 
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Chris Spath
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ericamick2 wrote:
freechinanow wrote:
It's not a stupid question as they are not explicit in the rules that you score for the tile as you would when normally building. But I believe that's the intent, certainly.

Also just to clarify, the rules say that you don't score any special Yield's again. So if you haven't gain the benefits of a Yield yet and the new tile now connects to it, you would be able to gain the benefit.


Actually, the German rules are clear that you don't score the yield at all. It's a bad translation to English.


Hmm, interesting. It would seem to me that the English version of the rules makes much more sense – i.e. you can score each yield exactly once, including with the Master Builder if you've not scored it yet. But the German rules ought to be the primary source!

Also, looking at the iconography on the board, that could be interpreted as never scoring a yield with the Master Builder.
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R. O. Schaefer
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Spatho wrote:
ericamick2 wrote:
freechinanow wrote:
It's not a stupid question as they are not explicit in the rules that you score for the tile as you would when normally building. But I believe that's the intent, certainly.

Also just to clarify, the rules say that you don't score any special Yield's again. So if you haven't gain the benefits of a Yield yet and the new tile now connects to it, you would be able to gain the benefit.


Actually, the German rules are clear that you don't score the yield at all. It's a bad translation to English.


Hmm, interesting. It would seem to me that the English version of the rules makes much more sense – i.e. you can score each yield exactly once, including with the Master Builder if you've not scored it yet.


While it is more logical in a way, the english rules also force you to 'remember' things which isn't a problem as you can see the old tile when overbuilding and you can overbuild only once. Still I see the german rules as an attempt to make it easier and more consistent.
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R. O. Schaefer
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VivaDaddy wrote:
Thanks to your question I now realize the value of the master builder. I had thought it was only good for fixing road connections, and therefore of minimal value. But if you score the buildings I can see it valuable if you don't have enough dice to purchase a tile outright but use the master builder to buy it cheaper. This would be useful in a close end game when trying to squeeze out some extra Fame.


This and maybe a bit more than you stated. When you have many upgrades and want to score buildings more often this is a way to do. And you can do it towards the end of the round - when the generic building action space might already cost 3 or 4$ - without using money.
Especially in advanced game - when player board yield tiles are harder to use for a win anyway (so you can skip one or two) - you pick already your first build (of value 5 or 6 dice) with master builder in mind when fame-oriented.
Obviously, master builder is less interesting for a market-oriented player.
 
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Przemyslaw Kozlowski
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London
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Califax wrote:
VivaDaddy wrote:
Thanks to your question I now realize the value of the master builder. I had thought it was only good for fixing road connections, and therefore of minimal value. But if you score the buildings I can see it valuable if you don't have enough dice to purchase a tile outright but use the master builder to buy it cheaper. This would be useful in a close end game when trying to squeeze out some extra Fame.


This and maybe a bit more than you stated. When you have many upgrades and want to score buildings more often this is a way to do. And you can do it towards the end of the round - when the generic building action space might already cost 3 or 4$ - without using money.
Especially in advanced game - when player board yield tiles are harder to use for a win anyway (so you can skip one or two) - you pick already your first build (of value 5 or 6 dice) with master builder in mind when fame-oriented.
Obviously, master builder is less interesting for a market-oriented player.


In our first game, one player did this multiple times and scored 8 fame each time. He won handily. It is definitely a tactic I am going to use in future games. You still spend two dice but you can do it across two colors which is invaluable in the late game.
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Ryan Buhr
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To clarify,the master builder never allows for a special yield, but you do score the new market/building?
 
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hgzwopjp hgzwopjp
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Thirdspaced wrote:
To clarify,the master builder never allows for a special yield, but you do score the new market/building?


That seems to be how everybody seems to be playing, yes.
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Nico de Bleye
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The French rules, follow the German
you don't score the yield at all
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lee curkeet
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Elk River
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I'm reading the rules right now and was going to ask the same thing.. still not clear. But I'm going with scoring it for now until I find out for sure not to.
 
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Eric Amick
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TheWanderer75 wrote:
I'm reading the rules right now and was going to ask the same thing.. still not clear. But I'm going with scoring it for now until I find out for sure not to.


Let me mention this quote from the rules:

rules wrote:
When you have added a new tile to your province, you immediately score money and/or fame for it.


It doesn't say a tile on an empty space; it says a new tile, and this situation certainly qualifies.
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Marco Castellanos
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phoenix
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master of disaster wrote:
The French rules, follow the German
you don't score the yield at all


Just to clarify, as I may have been playing wrong, but do the rules say you don't re-score or the master builder action never activates a special yield?

My plays have gone like this: Build a tile next to a blank yield spot, but don't connect. Then later add a yield to this spot. On a later turn master build over the old tile connecting to the new yield that was neither there nor connected and scoring that yield as well as the tile.

Reading this thread it sounds like I played wrong, but the right way sounds like the master builder action is weak and not worth it for the cost. Anyone read differently?
 
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Eric Amick
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Boxer Santaros wrote:
master of disaster wrote:
The French rules, follow the German
you don't score the yield at all


Just to clarify, as I may have been playing wrong, but do the rules say you don't re-score or the master builder action never activates a special yield?

My plays have gone like this: Build a tile next to a blank yield spot, but don't connect. Then later add a yield to this spot. On a later turn master build over the old tile connecting to the new yield that was neither there nor connected and scoring that yield as well as the tile.

Reading this thread it sounds like I played wrong, but the right way sounds like the master builder action is weak and not worth it for the cost. Anyone read differently?


Master builder does not activate a special yield, period.
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