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Subject: The Green and the Defender rss

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wendigo song
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So I think I may have been playing this rule incorrectly. Before I ask my question I think it is best to discuss the rules for the Green. The rules for placement of ninja in the green for the attacker are fairly straight forward and can be found on page 3:

Quote:
No matter the Threat Level of the current round, in the Planning Phase the Attacker can deploy on the Green exactly 1 Ninja Marker. For each Ninja Marker present on the Green at the beginning of the Planning Phase the Attacker can secretly choose 1 Village Area and deploy 1 additional Ninja Marker above this area’s limit (effectively increasing the Deployment Limit by 1). If there are more Ninja Markers on the Green, the Attacker decides if he wants to increase the Deployment Limit of 1 area or of many different areas. He does not say where he wants to increase the Deployment Limit, he just deploys additional Ninja Markers, lifts his Player Screen and moves all markers to the Village Board as normal.


This is also restated in a somewhat more condensed manner on page 17, and the bolding is in the rules.

For the Defender, the rules are also on page 3:

Quote:
The Defender cannot deploy any Ronin Marker on the Green unless it contains at least 1 Ninja Marker. This means that in the 1st round of the game he ignores the Green during the deployment, as the Attacker has had no chance yet to deploy Ninja Markers there. If the Defender deployed a Ronin Marker on the Green in Step 1 of the Planning Phase,
in Step 2 he places it on the Village Board and immediately removes all Ninja Markers from the Green (even the one just deployed by the Attacker), thus eliminating them.
He places those markers directly in the General Supply, not on the Ronin Tile.


My question is about the italicized portion of the rule above and how it interacts with the attacker's rule. Lets assume that the attacker has one ninja on the green that he placed on the first turn and it is now the second turn and he intends to deploy it to break the deployment limit of the well. Lets also assume that the defender intends to place a ronin in the green to kill that ninja. At the point where the planning boards are revealed, what happens? The way the "Reveal Planning Boards and Move Markers onto the Village Board" section of the rules on page 7 reads is that this happens simultaneously. That being the case, the ninja would already be deployed and there would have been no one there for the ronin to eliminate. Thus, it would be a move that might ultimately be fruitless for the ronin as they cannot catch the speedy ninja.

With that said, the logical conclusion seems to be that the only ninja that could be eliminated from the green are ones that the attacker chose not to deploy. This is the way I have played it and it always felt like I was doing it wrong, but I have scoured the rules many times to try and devine a clearer intent and I feel I always have missed something. Does a Ronin getting deployed to the green trump the deployment from the green? I could see that being a possibility as well, but the only thing I could find to back that interpretation up was the italicized wording on page 17 which stated:

Quote:
Any ninja impersonating simple villagers can quickly prepare diversion for the attack – until one of the patrolling ronin notices their actions.


But I am unsure if that is an actual rule as it reads more like flavor text. I wish the page 7 rules would have shed light on this a bit better, but with that said, how do you folks play this rule?
 
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The Green's special ability increases the deployment limit, but those extra Ninja come from the Ninja Reserve, like the deployment of all other Ninja. The Attacker never moves the Ninja deployed on the Green, only the Defender can clear the Green of Ninja. So the Ninja on the Green grant an ongoing deployment increase every turn for the Attacker. The Defender needs to weigh whether the ongoing benefit to the Attacker is worth the cost of not deploying a Ronin on a village area in order to clear the Green.
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wendigo song
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watergoesred wrote:
The Green's special ability increases the deployment limit, but those extra Ninja come from the Ninja Reserve, like the deployment of all other Ninja.


Where does it say that the extra ninja come from the ninja reserve? I will admit that your way makes sense, but I'm not sure it is explicitly stated that way in the rules.

watergoesred wrote:
The Attacker never moves the Ninja deployed on the Green, only the Defender can clear the Green of Ninja.


I agree that only the defender can clear the green of ninja as the rules explicitly state that on page 3. As far as the attacker never miving ninja deployed from the green, could you point out where it states that in the rules?

watergoesred wrote:
So the Ninja on the Green grant an ongoing deployment increase every turn for the Attacker.


Agreed. This is stated on page 3 and page 17.

watergoesred wrote:
The Defender needs to weigh whether the ongoing benefit to the Attacker is worth the cost of not deploying a Ronin on a village area in order to clear the Green.


So I would agree with this statement if your interpretation is correct. All I want to do is play the game correctly, could you please give me a rule cite where it states this is the way this is done?
 
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Joshua Lobkowicz
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watergoesred wrote:
The Green's special ability increases the deployment limit, but those extra Ninja come from the Ninja Reserve, like the deployment of all other Ninja. The Attacker never moves the Ninja deployed on the Green, only the Defender can clear the Green of Ninja. So the Ninja on the Green grant an ongoing deployment increase every turn for the Attacker. The Defender needs to weigh whether the ongoing benefit to the Attacker is worth the cost of not deploying a Ronin on a village area in order to clear the Green.


Watergoesred has it right.

Think of the Ninja on the Green as spies - they report weaknesses allowing you to to violate your limits. They persist in their duty until they are defeated.

Enjoy the game!

Josh
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wendigo song
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Both of you...thank you so much. I had been playing this for a long time and it turns out that I completelty got it wrong. This will make the game a bit more interesting now.

I guess my final question is that if the attacker deploys a ninja in accordance with the green and I deploy a ronin to eliminate the ninja in the green, when the deployments are revealed, the fact that the ronin kills the ninja on the green has no effect on the extra ninja that was was deployed to break the deployment limit, correct?
 
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harlemsushi wrote:
Both of you...thank you so much. I had been playing this for a long time and it turns out that I completelty got it wrong. This will make the game a bit more interesting now.

I guess my final question is that if the attacker deploys a ninja in accordance with the green and I deploy a ronin to eliminate the ninja in the green, when the deployments are revealed, the fact that the ronin kills the ninja on the green has no effect on the extra ninja that was was deployed to break the deployment limit, correct?


The Ronin will destroy all ninja on the green (without taking wounds) - even the ninja that you deployed this turn.

In the event that you deploy a ninja on the same turn that the Ronin decides to clear out the green, that ninja will never provide any bonus for you.

Since they Ronin cannot deploy there unless there is at least 1 ninja, the Ninja player must decide when they have 1 ninja there "Do I want to try an increase this bonus for next turn, knowing the Ronin could come after me and cancel it? Or do I simply keep the +1?"

The more Ninja in the green, the more certain the Ronin player will come wipe them out. Find the balance that works for you.

Josh
Grey Fox Games
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