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Subject: Porting TI3 Distant Suns to TI4 rss

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Woody Woodywoody
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So we’re planning on trying to shoehorn classic Distant Suns into TI4 this weekend. Because, well, we miss it.

Has anyone got any experience of this? Want went well, and what went badly?

My biggest concern is the lower capacity of the standard carriers in TI4, so I was thinking that we could try removing the 3 fighter / 3 ground force counters, and to balance things out, also remove the 4TG counters.

And maybe reducing Distant Suns PDS fire from two to one.

Looking through all the other old Distant Suns rules, I can’t see anything else that will cause a conflict.

I know there’s some pretty strong feelings around the randomness of DS, but would be great to get some constructive comments!
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Badoux Jerome
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For me the best thing about TIç is there is no more distant Suns .... too much arguing about playing with or without ... now no more argument... no more distant Suns and I am so happy.
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Steve Arnold
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woofdine wrote:
So we’re planning on trying to shoehorn classic Distant Suns into TI4 this weekend. Because, well, we miss it.

Has anyone got any experience of this? Want went well, and what went badly?

My biggest concern is the lower capacity of the standard carriers in TI4, so I was thinking that we could try removing the 3 fighter / 3 ground force counters, and to balance things out, also remove the 4TG counters.

And maybe reducing Distant Suns PDS fire from two to one.

Looking through all the other old Distant Suns rules, I can’t see anything else that will cause a conflict.

I know there’s some pretty strong feelings around the randomness of DS, but would be great to get some constructive comments!


Hopefully they will release them in the inevitable expansion, but for now, Distant Suns could only make this game better.

Please report back how it goes!

I think the whole process will require trial and error because of unforeseen interactions in game mechanics. You may want to try Territorial Distant Suns for the first game, modifying or removing those you don't think work.

For me, I would definitely remove the 3 GF & 3 Fighters, the 4 TGs, Industrial Society (because Space Docks should be harder to get), & Hostage Situation (as no one starts with TGs). I could go either way on whether to restrict ADS to only one shot; on the one hand, less GF to drop, but on the other, PDS are harder to come by, so bigger risk/bigger reward.
 
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Patrick G.
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Agone07 wrote:
For me the best thing about TIç is there is no more distant Suns .... too much arguing about playing with or without ... now no more argument... no more distant Suns and I am so happy.

Not a helpful contribution to the OP's question.... especially since he specifically asked for constructive comments.

Also the fact that it practically removes one of the X's needed to hit 4.....
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Patrick G.
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woofdine wrote:
So we’re planning on trying to shoehorn classic Distant Suns into TI4 this weekend. Because, well, we miss it.

Has anyone got any experience of this? Want went well, and what went badly?

My biggest concern is the lower capacity of the standard carriers in TI4, so I was thinking that we could try removing the 3 fighter / 3 ground force counters, and to balance things out, also remove the 4TG counters.

And maybe reducing Distant Suns PDS fire from two to one.

Looking through all the other old Distant Suns rules, I can’t see anything else that will cause a conflict.

I know there’s some pretty strong feelings around the randomness of DS, but would be great to get some constructive comments!

If you search the forums for about 45 seconds you will find a few discussions on this very topic. Including at least one implementation of it updated to include the new planet types.
 
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John Drake
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YinBro wrote:
woofdine wrote:
So we’re planning on trying to shoehorn classic Distant Suns into TI4 this weekend. Because, well, we miss it.

Has anyone got any experience of this? Want went well, and what went badly?

My biggest concern is the lower capacity of the standard carriers in TI4, so I was thinking that we could try removing the 3 fighter / 3 ground force counters, and to balance things out, also remove the 4TG counters.

And maybe reducing Distant Suns PDS fire from two to one.

Looking through all the other old Distant Suns rules, I can’t see anything else that will cause a conflict.

I know there’s some pretty strong feelings around the randomness of DS, but would be great to get some constructive comments!


Hopefully they will release them in the inevitable expansion, but for now, Distant Suns could only make this game better.

Please report back how it goes!

I think the whole process will require trial and error because of unforeseen interactions in game mechanics. You may want to try Territorial Distant Suns for the first game, modifying or removing those you don't think work.

For me, I would definitely remove the 3 GF & 3 Fighters, the 4 TGs, Industrial Society (because Space Docks should be harder to get), & Hostage Situation (as no one starts with TGs). I could go either way on whether to restrict ADS to only one shot; on the one hand, less GF to drop, but on the other, PDS are harder to come by, so bigger risk/bigger reward.


The standard solution so far seems to be to divide the counters into categories by planet trait. There are a variety of schemes, but mine (which I have readily at hand) is:

Hazardous (19x)
Biohazard x4
Radiation x4
Natural Wealth [4] x4
Wormhole Discovery x2
PDS x1
Peaceful Annexation x4

Industrial (19x)

Hostage Situation x1
Fighter Ambush [1] x2
Fighter Ambush [2] x2
Fighter Ambush [3] x1
Natural Wealth [2] x4
Hidden Factory x2
Industrial Society x2
Settlers x1
PDS x1
Peaceful Annexation x3

Cultural (19x)

Hostile Locals [1] x2
Hostile Locals [2] x2
Hostile Locals [3] x1
Lazax Survivors x1
Technological Society x2
Native Intelligence x4
Settlers x1
PDS x1
Peaceful Annexation x5


We have modified some tokens as follows:

Hostage Situation: Players may spend Trade Goods or commodities.
Hostile Locals: NPC “Ground Forces” are Infantry.
Lazax Survivors: In order to use the bonus votes, the token must be exhausted (i.e., it may only be used once per Agenda Phase).
Settlers: “Ground Forces” are specifically Infantry.
Space Pirates: If a player has no Trade Goods, he or she may choose to lose all his or her Commodities instead. If he or she has no Commodities, then the pirates attack.

The "Infantry" is worth specifying for us at least, as my group has also ported in modified version of Mech Units as another type of GF. In all cases except those noted above, "Ground Forces" are read under the definition used in TI4, and therefore affect Mech Units (even though they wouldn't have in TI3).

This has worked well in the few games we've played so far. It did slightly slow down initial expansion, of course, though I don't think I've seen a 10-point game yet that would have hit the Imperium Rex ending condition, so not sure that's a significant problem.

It's worth making a token distribution player reference, I think, if you do divide up tokens by planet type, just to give people a general idea of the potential risks of a given landing.
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Woody Woodywoody
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This is amazing thanks John! We’ll probably go with something exactly like this perhaps with some slight modifications:
- remove ambush [3] tokens (too much for four capacity carrier fleets)
- remove wormhole discovery (already 4x wormholes out in a standard TI4 game)

@Steve I hear you. I think the weighing of risk/reward on hazardous planets probably allows us to keep the 4TGs DS in. But will keep those PDS firing twice.

@Badoux @Patrick thanks for the constructive comments! You guys rock!
 
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Sander Stroom
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I'd propose a different kind of exploration mechanic to the game:

When taking a neutral planet, you may (or must) draw an event card (similar effects to the distant suns tokens). If the ability is activated, you can have some good or bad effects. Maybe something similar to kicking down the door in Munchkin (I hate that I had to bring this game as an example, maybe there is something else with a similar effect).

Thematically, you land on the planet but initially in a more neutral area that will always submit to your faction. But in order to gain the "initial exploitation bonus", you can go and explore the hidden treasures the planet offers. So maybe the bandits manage to kick out your forces and turn other inhabitants against you. Maybe there IS a hidden treasure of 2 trade goods around the corner.
 
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Steve Arnold
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woofdine wrote:
So we’re planning on trying to shoehorn classic Distant Suns into TI4 this weekend. Because, well, we miss it.


How did it go?
 
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Woody Woodywoody
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@Steve, we tried John’s system described above with the following modifications:
- wormhole discovery removed
- both ambush [3] removed

And...it worked great! We loved the dynamic of at least having some expectation of what can come out, allowing you to choose your expedition forces accordingly.

There were also some hilariously bad decisions made based on what had already come out (e.g. someone dropping only one GF on a planet because three biohazards had already come out. You can guess what came next!).

So thanks John for the recommendation! We’ll probably make this a permanent fixture in our games.

I was thinking of adding one extra modification: instead of removing the wormhole discoveries, leave one in and have it open up the old wormhole nexus upon discovery (not add a new wormhole).
 
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Patrick G.
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woofdine wrote:
@Steve, we tried John’s system described above with the following modifications:
- wormhole discovery removed
- both ambush [3] removed

And...it worked great! We loved the dynamic of at least having some expectation of what can come out, allowing you to choose your expedition forces accordingly.

There were also some hilariously bad decisions made based on what had already come out (e.g. someone dropping only one GF on a planet because three biohazards had already come out. You can guess what came next!).

So thanks John for the recommendation! We’ll probably make this a permanent fixture in our games.

I was thinking of adding one extra modification: instead of removing the wormhole discoveries, leave one in and have it open up the old wormhole nexus upon discovery (not add a new wormhole).

Why remove ambush?
 
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Phil Hatfield
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I came up with some solo rules for TI3, and also a conversion to TI4 for the rules. One facet that I felt was very important to playing TI3 and TI4 solo was to have greater immersion into the galaxy, so Distant Suns was included and expanded upon.

All of the Distant Suns (except Peaceful Annexation) have been altered to make effects that have a different, not quite as "swingy", effect on the game.

You can find my rules on my Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7K13QUX-9lrQlotZ0pOeTJRdlE...

If you want to use these when playing with other people, just change all reference for NPRs(non-player races)to "Other Players" so that everyone can have an impact on certain things.

You can also find my conversion to TI4 rules, and how you work it with the new planet types in TI4, on my Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nuqVDNo7Ul2p1yqxtxCdB6Q3MlD...

It might be of interest to you, or you might just go with what you've already used, since it sounds like you enjoyed your first foray with the system you used. Either way, have fun!
 
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Fire Play
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Sande24 wrote:
I'd propose a different kind of exploration mechanic to the game:

When taking a neutral planet, you may (or must) draw an event card (similar effects to the distant suns tokens). If the ability is activated, you can have some good or bad effects. Maybe something similar to kicking down the door in Munchkin (I hate that I had to bring this game as an example, maybe there is something else with a similar effect).

Thematically, you land on the planet but initially in a more neutral area that will always submit to your faction. But in order to gain the "initial exploitation bonus", you can go and explore the hidden treasures the planet offers. So maybe the bandits manage to kick out your forces and turn other inhabitants against you. Maybe there IS a hidden treasure of 2 trade goods around the corner.


I like the idea of an exploration deck similar to how Scythe has one.
 
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Patrick G.
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Fireplay5 wrote:
Sande24 wrote:
I'd propose a different kind of exploration mechanic to the game:

When taking a neutral planet, you may (or must) draw an event card (similar effects to the distant suns tokens). If the ability is activated, you can have some good or bad effects. Maybe something similar to kicking down the door in Munchkin (I hate that I had to bring this game as an example, maybe there is something else with a similar effect).

Thematically, you land on the planet but initially in a more neutral area that will always submit to your faction. But in order to gain the "initial exploitation bonus", you can go and explore the hidden treasures the planet offers. So maybe the bandits manage to kick out your forces and turn other inhabitants against you. Maybe there IS a hidden treasure of 2 trade goods around the corner.


I like the idea of an exploration deck similar to how Scythe has one.

Except that prohibits the looking ahead part of Distant Suns.
 
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Subudai (Pete) Khan
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John, thanks for the work on this
 
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