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Terraforming Mars» Forums » Rules

Subject: Endgame: 1st player infinite combo? rss

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maxime joubert
France
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Hi dear terrafomers!

After a couple of plays, one question remains unclear, I tried to search there but didn t figure it out:

-- What happens when the game ends if the 1st player has in play one or more blue cards with ACTION effects that make direct PV (for example: CATTLE, FISH, BIRDS,...)?

I think the game ends at the end of the generation when the Terraforming parameters are at the max. But the end of the gerneration occurs at the end of the turn when the 1st player decide to pass.
What if he decides to continue to produce his ressources on these blue ACTION cards, infinitely during this last generation? He would be able to have infinite PV...
(of course it will be interseting for him if the opponents don t have this kind of cards)

Thank you for your light
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Lars Toft
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All blue actions are 1 time use pr generation.

Generation ends when ALL players have passed.
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I AM Not A Number
France
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Actions of the blue cards can be triggered only once per generation (red arrow) I think.
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Max Hansen
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Remember that once an action on a blue card has been played in a generation, it cannot be played again THAT generation and if the 1st player does pass and the 2nd player still has more actions to complete that generation, then that player'd turn would continue until they have completed all of their possible actions.

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Matthew Greet
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TM rules, p11.
Quote:
E) Use the action on a blue card

Many blue cards and corporations have actions, as indicated by a red arrow. Each such action card may be used once each generation. When you use an action on a blue card, you must first pay any cost stated to the left of the arrow. You get whatever the arrow points to, and place a player marker on the card to indicate that it has been used this generation. The player markers will be removed during the production phase.

Not only are infinite blue card actions explicitly banned with bold text in the rule booklet, complete with a mechanism and example described to prevent confusion, infinite VP generation is absurd anyway. If the rule was somehow missing from the rule booklet, it would be obvious it should exist.
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Chris Hall
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Hemel Hempstead
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I can't remember if this is in the rules, or just something we came up with, but whenever a player plays a blue card they place one of their player markers to the left of the red arrow. When they take the action they slide it to the right. All then get slid back to the left when we do production phase.
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Christian Gienger
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chrishall20 wrote:
I can't remember if this is in the rules, or just something we came up with, but whenever a player plays a blue card they place one of their player markers to the left of the red arrow. When they take the action they slide it to the right. All then get slid back to the left when we do production phase.


I wouldn't slide anything, too easy to miss anything. Put one of your player cubes on the card when you use it to show that this card has been used. Then remove all player cubes from cards at the end of the generation.
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maxime joubert
France
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THX everyone!!

I forgot that point of the rules...
It will drastically change our plays

@Max Hansen:
I don t get what you mean in the 2nd part of your answer:
"if the 1st player does pass and the 2nd player still has more actions to complete that generation, then that player'd turn would continue until they have completed all of their possible actions."

Does that mean if the 1st player pass, the others can continue until they have no actions to perform, even if it needs more than one turn?
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Lars Toft
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bananamax wrote:

Does that mean if the 1st player pass, the others can continue until they have no actions to perform, even if it needs more than one turn?


Yes
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karel pepiku
Czech Republic
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bananamax wrote:
THX everyone!!

I forgot that point of the rules...
It will drastically change our plays

@Max Hansen:
I don t get what you mean in the 2nd part of your answer:
"if the 1st player does pass and the 2nd player still has more actions to complete that generation, then that player'd turn would continue until they have completed all of their possible actions."

Does that mean if the 1st player pass, the others can continue until they have no actions to perform, even if it needs more than one turn?


Exactly. A generation proceeds until everybody passes. And if there is only one player who has not passed yet, he may perform as many actions as he wishes and once he says he passes, the action phase is over and production begins.
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Sonny A.
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bananamax wrote:
THX everyone!!

I forgot that point of the rules...
It will drastically change our plays


Hey, everyone makes mistakes. But I really wonder how you were able to play the game if your understanding of the rules were that blue cards could be activated an unlimited number of times per generation.

Look at cards like Martian Rails.. That would be unlimited money every generation (Ok, bad example, unless you have a way to create unlimited energy too )

Also, in your example, why wait until last round before doing something an unlimited number of times? Why not create unlimited VP (or PV in French?) the same round as you play it?

There must be something more you're doing wrong?
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RyuSora
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Actions can only be performed ONCE PER ROUND!
Every round HAS SEVERAL NUMBER OF TURNS!
A player turn consist of 1 or 2 ACTIONS (or pass)!
Player keep playing until ALL PLAYERS PASSES!
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The Shader
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ryusora wrote:
Actions can only be performed ONCE PER ROUND!
Every round HAS SEVERAL NUMBER OF TURNS!
A player turn consist of 1 or 2 ACTIONS (or pass)!
Player keep playing until ALL PLAYERS PASSES!


This should be a sticker on the front of the box
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Adam H
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SonnyDK wrote:
Hey, everyone makes mistakes. But I really wonder how you were able to play the game if your understanding of the rules were that blue cards could be activated an unlimited number of times per generation.


I think it was the fact that they were making two errors made it possible. The first error was letting blue cards be activated as many times as you wanted in a generation. The second error was that once one person passed they ended the generation. The glitch on the passing rule allowed somebody to break the potentially infinite loop by ending the round on everyone's behalf.

Not exactly sure, but that's my guess as to how they got through the play without the loop happening sooner.
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Marc Espie
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Locu wrote:
chrishall20 wrote:
I can't remember if this is in the rules, or just something we came up with, but whenever a player plays a blue card they place one of their player markers to the left of the red arrow. When they take the action they slide it to the right. All then get slid back to the left when we do production phase.


I wouldn't slide anything, too easy to miss anything. Put one of your player cubes on the card when you use it to show that this card has been used. Then remove all player cubes from cards at the end of the generation.


That's what I do as well.
If you have enough space, the old practice of tapping/untapping cards (turn them sideways/back to vertical) also works just fine.
 
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Jared Heath
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bananamax wrote:


I think the game ends at the end of the generation when the Terraforming parameters are at the max. But the end of the gerneration occurs at the end of the turn when the 1st player decide to pass.


Ouch. That would allow someone to pass out of spite and prevent everyone from doing anything the entire game.

I'm surprised you made it through even a few generations playing this way. Somebody should have been vocally opposed to player A having the starting player, doing one action, and passing thus ending the generation before anybody got a turn (hint: this happens all the time where a player has only one thing they want to do on the very first turn).
 
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Sonny A.
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jaredh wrote:
Somebody should have been vocally opposed to player A having the starting player, doing one action, and passing thus ending the generation before anybody got a turn (hint: this happens all the time where a player has only one thing they want to do on the very first turn).


I don't think you can pass after having taken an action during your turn. You would have to wait until it was your turn again, before you pass.

Well, not that it matters much as the generation ending rule doesn't work like that
 
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