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Subject: Null Attack Modifier rss

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James Derbyshire
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Norton Mandeville
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On drawing a “Null” Attack Modifier card, I read that no damage is done by an attack. Does that include sub text, such as Push 2?

Also with multiple enemy types on the board, do they use a single, common Modifier deck, not a deck per monster type?

Thank you
 
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Per Erlandsson
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Null just means that the attack becomes Zero no matter what other Rolling cards or modifiers you might have! All modifiers and conditions of the attacks are still applied! So the only thing you lose is the damage.


Note that there is an Official Variant in the rules where you can treat both Crit and Null as +0 Cards, if you want the game to be more "Euro" and less random! We have tried going a middle ground in one group I play with in treating all Non-Cures/Blessing Nulls/Crits as -2/+2 instead. In retrospect perhaps -3/+3 would have been better.
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Angelus Seniores
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The modifier makes the attack void but any other effect is still applied, you have to see each line on an ability card as a seperate effect and only the attack part uses the modifier.

There is only 1 monster modifier deck so yes they all use the same one.
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Per Erlandsson
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Angelsenior wrote:
The modifier makes the attack void but any other effect is still applied, you have to see each line on an ability card as a seperate effect and only the attack part uses the modifier.

There is only 1 monster modifier deck so yes they all use the same one.


This means that you can curse Monsters so that Curse Cards go into their collective Modifier Deck, then a later (more dangerous) monster can draw the Curse, which can be quite effective! Same things if the monsters bless each other.
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James Derbyshire
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Norton Mandeville
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Thank you both. All clear.
 
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Wolfram Troeder
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perer005 wrote:
Angelsenior wrote:
The modifier makes the attack void but any other effect is still applied, you have to see each line on an ability card as a seperate effect and only the attack part uses the modifier.

There is only 1 monster modifier deck so yes they all use the same one.


This means that you can curse Monsters so that Curse Cards go into their collective Modifier Deck, then a later (more dangerous) monster can draw the Curse, which can be quite effective! Same things if the monsters bless each other.


Question?
Opinion?
Rule?
 
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Robert Marney
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Wolfram wrote:
Question?
Opinion?
Rule?


This is a game rule, supported specifically in 2nd edition by printing separate curse cards for the monster deck and player decks. All monsters draw from the same modifier deck, just like all your summons draw from your modifier deck. Cursing or blessing an enemy modifies their deck in the same way as cursing or blessing an ally.
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Jay Johnson
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perer005 wrote:
This means that you can curse Monsters so that Curse Cards go into their collective Modifier Deck, then a later (more dangerous) monster can draw the Curse, which can be quite effective! Same things if the monsters bless each other.

Of course, sometimes it works opposite. You curse a dangerous monster but then some weak monster with a 1-damage base attack draws an attack-1 ability card (so the attack would only do damage if they drew a positive attack mod card) and then they end up drawing the curse card from the shared monster att mod deck

And don't forget, whenever a Curse (or Bless) is drawn, after applying it, the card is removed from the deck and returned to its respective curse/bless pile.
 
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Jay Johnson
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perer005 wrote:
Note that there is an Official Variant in the rules where you can treat both Crit and Null as +0 Cards, if you want the game to be more "Euro" and less random! We have tried going a middle ground in one group I play with in treating all Non-Cures/Blessing Nulls/Crits as -2/+2 instead. In retrospect perhaps -3/+3 would have been better.

note that the "official" variant (i.e. the one listed in the rulebook) treats Bless cards the same as the Crit card, and both are treated as a +2 (not a +0),
and the Curse is treated the same as the Null, with both treated as a -2 (not a +0).

see the bottom of page 49 in the rulebook (2nd edition, at least. dunno what 1E says)
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Des T.
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perer005 wrote:

This means that you can curse Monsters so that Curse Cards go into their collective Modifier Deck, then a later (more dangerous) monster can draw the Curse, which can be quite effective! Same things if the monsters bless each other.


This effect also explains why one of the best augmentations you can do is adding curse to multitarget attacks.
 
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Esther Pettigrew
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DeS_Tructive wrote:
perer005 wrote:

This means that you can curse Monsters so that Curse Cards go into their collective Modifier Deck, then a later (more dangerous) monster can draw the Curse, which can be quite effective! Same things if the monsters bless each other.


This effect also explains why one of the best augmentations you can do is adding curse to multitarget attacks.

Hang on...does that mean that each target of that attack gets a curse and Presto! You add multiple curses to the Monster Modifier deck from that one attack?

OMG!
 
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Jay Johnson
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estherp wrote:
DeS_Tructive wrote:
perer005 wrote:

This means that you can curse Monsters so that Curse Cards go into their collective Modifier Deck, then a later (more dangerous) monster can draw the Curse, which can be quite effective! Same things if the monsters bless each other.


This effect also explains why one of the best augmentations you can do is adding curse to multitarget attacks.

Hang on...does that mean that each target of that attack gets a curse and Presto! You add multiple curses to the Monster Modifier deck from that one attack?

OMG!

up to a total of 10 curses (the max available for the Monster deck), which equates to 1/3 of the deck being Curses (plus the usual Null card).
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Fito R
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estherp wrote:
DeS_Tructive wrote:
perer005 wrote:

This means that you can curse Monsters so that Curse Cards go into their collective Modifier Deck, then a later (more dangerous) monster can draw the Curse, which can be quite effective! Same things if the monsters bless each other.


This effect also explains why one of the best augmentations you can do is adding curse to multitarget attacks.

Hang on...does that mean that each target of that attack gets a curse and Presto! You add multiple curses to the Monster Modifier deck from that one attack?

OMG!
Just like any other added effect, however, Curse is only applied if the target survives the attack. So a big AOE attack on four enemies that kills two of them would only add two Curses to the monster deck.
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Mike Spartz
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JayJ79 wrote:
estherp wrote:
DeS_Tructive wrote:
perer005 wrote:

This means that you can curse Monsters so that Curse Cards go into their collective Modifier Deck, then a later (more dangerous) monster can draw the Curse, which can be quite effective! Same things if the monsters bless each other.


This effect also explains why one of the best augmentations you can do is adding curse to multitarget attacks.

Hang on...does that mean that each target of that attack gets a curse and Presto! You add multiple curses to the Monster Modifier deck from that one attack?

OMG!

up to a total of 10 curses (the max available for the Monster deck), which equates to 1/3 of the deck being Curses (plus the usual Null card).


This can work against the players too, though. We had a monster curse every player in its range so that meant the mind thief got two curses.
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Esther Pettigrew
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Joou wrote:
estherp wrote:
DeS_Tructive wrote:
perer005 wrote:

This means that you can curse Monsters so that Curse Cards go into their collective Modifier Deck, then a later (more dangerous) monster can draw the Curse, which can be quite effective! Same things if the monsters bless each other.


This effect also explains why one of the best augmentations you can do is adding curse to multitarget attacks.

Hang on...does that mean that each target of that attack gets a curse and Presto! You add multiple curses to the Monster Modifier deck from that one attack?

OMG!
Just like any other added effect, however, Curse is only applied if the target survives the attack. So a big AOE attack on four enemies that kills two of them would only add two Curses to the monster deck.

Still sitting here stunned.

(Doing a Long Rest now)
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Mauro Moura
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estherp wrote:
DeS_Tructive wrote:
perer005 wrote:

This means that you can curse Monsters so that Curse Cards go into their collective Modifier Deck, then a later (more dangerous) monster can draw the Curse, which can be quite effective! Same things if the monsters bless each other.


This effect also explains why one of the best augmentations you can do is adding curse to multitarget attacks.

Hang on...does that mean that each target of that attack gets a curse and Presto! You add multiple curses to the Monster Modifier deck from that one attack?

OMG!


Ye, thats exactly what that means. Theres one particular unlockable class (wich I won't spoil for you) that works wonders with curses, its hilarious how it ruins monster lives.
 
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Per Erlandsson
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DakonBlackblade wrote:
estherp wrote:

Hang on...does that mean that each target of that attack gets a curse and Presto! You add multiple curses to the Monster Modifier deck from that one attack?

OMG!


Ye, thats exactly what that means. Theres one particular unlockable class (wich I won't spoil for you) that works wonders with curses, its hilarious how it ruins monster lives.

With some enhancements that class can place all 10 Blessings in the allies decks and all 10 Curses in the Monster Deck in two rounds!
 
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J C
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perer005 wrote:
DakonBlackblade wrote:
estherp wrote:

Hang on...does that mean that each target of that attack gets a curse and Presto! You add multiple curses to the Monster Modifier deck from that one attack?

OMG!


Ye, thats exactly what that means. Theres one particular unlockable class (wich I won't spoil for you) that works wonders with curses, its hilarious how it ruins monster lives.

With some enhancements that class can place all 10 Blessings in the allies decks and all 10 Curses in the Monster Deck in two rounds!


While that sounds clever and really cool, I can't imagine the game being a challenge (or very fun) after doing this. Have people tried this as a genuine strategy? Does it break the game, and has the move been "sanctioned" as legal by Isaac?
 
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