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Subject: Logistics is too strong rss

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kos blaat
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Whoever has the logistics tile is able to get infinite money (or happiness) by moving the die over and over. This is possible with for example
- a tile with a square that changes goods to 3 money (if your die is on it)
- a tile with a square that generates a good (if your die is on it)
- these two squares are connected and at least one is unoccupied.

At your turn you
- pay 1 money
- move the die to one of the unoccupied.
- get the good
- pay 1 money
- move the die to the square that gives money for good;
- get the 3 money
- goto step 1.
After each loop you get 1 money as net revenue, there is no constraint on how often you can loop this, hence you have unlimited money.

The first player that does this (you do need 2 money to start it), gets all the money in the bank.
Because supplies on page 1 of the manual are to be considered UNLIMITED, that means the round never ends, and that end game scoring never occurs. 3 money == 1 happiness, meaning unlimited points.


So either:
- remove the logistics tile altogether; or
- define house rule what logistics power would be; or
- use only limited supplies: what is not in the game is not available.

Would sure like to know the designer's opinion, as I read somewhere he has playtested 100s of times, how come he has not encountered this?
 
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Curtis Frantz
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kosterix wrote:
At your turn you
- pay 1 money
- move the die to one of the unoccupied.
- get the good
- pay 1 money
- move the die to the square that gives money for good;
- get the 3 money
- goto step 1.
After each loop you get 1 money as net revenue, there is no constraint on how often you can loop this, hence you have unlimited money.


I think what you may be missing is that you don't activate the tile onto which you're moving the die. It's simply to free up the space from which the die was on. So you can then activate it with a different die or money. It's still a good ability, but not quite as super-powered as you described.
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Kristian Amundsen Østby
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kosterix wrote:

Would sure like to know the designer's opinion, as I read somewhere he has playtested 100s of times


"100s of times" is a very rough estimate and often such play tests are divided over multiple stages of the game development. So some times errors will slip through. But this is not one of them, because as the previous poster correctly points out, you do not get to activate the building when you use logistics. Logistics is just used to move a die to free up a building space so that it can be activated again, either by using another die or by using coins.
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kos blaat
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I don't have the English tile explanation, but the Dutch rules explicitly state:

"Logistiek: Je mag op elk moment 1 munt
betalen om een dobbelsteen te verplaatsen
van een gebouw in je kolonie naar een ander
vrij gebouw dat is verbonden via een
ononderbroken weg (zo kan een gebouw
opnieuw activeren)."

The last word ACTIVEREN makes it pretty clear that the above described loop is valid.
 
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steven smolders
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kosterix wrote:
I don't have the English tile explanation, but the Dutch rules explicitly state:

"Logistiek: Je mag op elk moment 1 munt
betalen om een dobbelsteen te verplaatsen
van een gebouw in je kolonie naar een ander
vrij gebouw dat is verbonden via een
ononderbroken weg (zo kan een gebouw
opnieuw activeren)."

The last word ACTIVEREN makes it pretty clear that the above described loop is valid.


Lol you do know the person who replyed above your last post is the desinger of the game right ?
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kos blaat
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wolverine1977 wrote:
kosterix wrote:
I don't have the English tile explanation, but the Dutch rules explicitly state:

"Logistiek: Je mag op elk moment 1 munt
betalen om een dobbelsteen te verplaatsen
van een gebouw in je kolonie naar een ander
vrij gebouw dat is verbonden via een
ononderbroken weg (zo kan een gebouw
opnieuw activeren)."

The last word ACTIVEREN makes it pretty clear that the above described loop is valid.


Lol you do know the person who replyed above your last post is the desinger of the game right ?


yes i do. But designers dont always create and playtest the game mechanics, sometimes they only paint stuff, it's what designers do. Anyway, I will play SM some more with your interpretation and see how that will work. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
 
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Derek M
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kosterix wrote:

Would sure like to know the designer's opinion, as I read somewhere he has playtested 100s of times


wolverine1977 wrote:

Lol you do know the person who replyed above your last post is the desinger of the game right ?


kosterix wrote:
yes i do. But designers dont always create and playtest the game mechanics, sometimes they only paint stuff, it's what designers do. Anyway, I will play SM some more with your interpretation and see how that will work. Thanks for taking the time to respond!


Interesting...why would you explicitly ask for the designer's opinion and then dismiss it as coming from someone who just 'paints stuff?'

Getting shown that you're incorrect in your rules assumption and ignorant on the designer -both in the same thread- stings, I guess!

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Mr Avers
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I would also like to add that the OP interprets the Dutch rules wrongly. 'Kan een gebouw opnieuw activeren' (translated: could activate a building again), clearly refers to the tile from which you just removed the die.

So there is also nothing wrong with the rules.
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kos blaat
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Aha. I get it now. Move the die away from a tile so it is unoccupied, and that freedom tile might be activated by some future action.
Thanks!
I will explain to the people that play it, because everyone got it wrong. Perhaps it's the dutch translation, but the wording might be improved.

After discussion with colleague, we find that logistics if played in this fashion, should not cost $1.
Also, construction, is so strong that it should cost $1.

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Decatur
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kosterix wrote:
Perhaps it's the dutch translation, but the wording might be improved.


How could it be improved? Here it is:

"At any time, you may pay 1 coin to move one die from a building in your colony to another vacant building that is connected by an uninterrupted road."

It says nothing about taking an action. So why would you do it if you don't get an action? The answer comes immediately:

"(this is done to free up a building so that you can activate it again)."

... which would make zero sense otherwise.



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Jack Spirio
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kosterix wrote:
wolverine1977 wrote:
kosterix wrote:
I don't have the English tile explanation, but the Dutch rules explicitly state:

"Logistiek: Je mag op elk moment 1 munt
betalen om een dobbelsteen te verplaatsen
van een gebouw in je kolonie naar een ander
vrij gebouw dat is verbonden via een
ononderbroken weg (zo kan een gebouw
opnieuw activeren)."

The last word ACTIVEREN makes it pretty clear that the above described loop is valid.


Lol you do know the person who replyed above your last post is the desinger of the game right ?


yes i do. But designers dont always create and playtest the game mechanics, sometimes they only paint stuff, it's what designers do. Anyway, I will play SM some more with your interpretation and see how that will work. Thanks for taking the time to respond!


I understand that you aren’t a native speaker, but you should know that Designer in games usually means the guy who invented the game, that means he created the rules. The guy who paints is usually referred to as Artist. It‘s true that designer is used differently in other situations, but here it is clear.
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