Recommend
10 
 Thumb up
 Hide
34 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Fallout» Forums » Variants

Subject: First draft at house rules that fix this broken game rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mark Ostyn
msg tools
Fallout is a fun game, but its rules are terrible. No one can afford equipment, tests are failed way too often, and the mechanics to win are so bad that the game can win more often than the players.

Therefore, I have been working on creating formal house rules that keep the game in the "Fallout feel" while providing the players with a rewarding, but still challenging experience.

1) In solo play, you get three actions per turn.
Since the number of enemies does not scale, you really need the flexibility.

2) All enemies grant caps equal to half their level rounded up.
In my experience with the vanilla rules, there was little incentive to kill non-loot enemies, especially the low level ones. Additionally, the items in the shop were far too expensive, especially if you had the pipe rifle, laser rifle, or T-45 power armor. This takes care of both problems with one stone. In the video game, enemies often possessed caps and equipment, so I think this fits thematically, and scales well with the difficulty of the enemies.

3) All attacks and skill checks get to reroll 1 die 1 extra time.
To clarify, this means that after all rerolls for equipment and well-rested, you get to reroll one die, one time. Games like Fallout are all about rewarding storytelling. I found that skill checks that required 5 or higher were very unlikely to pass, even if you had multiple S.P.E.C.I.A.L.'s to reroll. This helps keep the player experience moving forward without feeling too much like cheating. Remember, the probability of rolling the 2-hit side or that headshot you need is only 1/6!

4) Robots, Super Mutants, and Deathclaw-symbol monsters cannot cross blank tiles.
The player should not be in deadly peril near the start of the game because they are unlikely to have found both armor and weapons necessary to survive encounters with these enemies. The enemies may move like normal on their own tiles, but cannot reach the player until someone has "released" them.

5) When flipping an unexplored tile, place the arrow so that it points toward the player's currently occupied space. The player resolves ties.
The tiles are beautiful and work well, but directional randomness is a missed opporunity for procedurally generated terrain. As far as I can tell, the developers included this rule only so that the artwork is always in the same direction. FFG included something like my arrow rule in the Civilization game.

6) Enemies cannot move through difficult terrain without the retreat icon.
Ok, this might be a stretch. However, in the video game, there were often times where the player would find difficult navigations for enemies to follow them, and I think this helps the player feel like they can run away from an enemy safely. The exception of course, is limber enemies that are likely to scramble through the rocky terrain.

7) Raiders cannot cross irradiated zones.
Irradiated zones are very dangerous to the player in this game. They should be dangerous to other humans as well, if we are building an immersive world. Every other type of enemy makes sense as immune to radiation.

8) Magazines may also be discarded to grant 1 hit for the skill checks that grant rerolls with the matching S.P.E.C.I.A.L. or to grant 1 weapon reroll if the weapon uses the matching S.P.E.C.I.A.L.
This is how magazines were used in the game, and I think its a far better use than either 1 cap or a small XP boost.

9) Super mutant characters may restore 1 rad when camping.
It's never fun when your "bonus" is also a hazard, especially if there are so few ways to recover from radiation. Immunity is too far for the super mutant, but I think this helps that class just enough to be fun again.

10) The ghoul is not allowed to participate in the Pitt or Far Harbor.
Since irradiated zones are major components of those quests, it seems unfair to go in with a character advantage.

11) No agenda cards are dealt to players at the start of the game. Instead, each player must publicly declare loyalty to either faction at the start of the game. Players may switch sides during their turn if they wish. The faction that reaches the end of the influence track first wins together, with the player possessing the most influence cards declared the MVP. The influence track may only advance to the last position by resolving a quest. Influence cards are only used for counting purposes, their text side is never read.

The base game's rules are terrible. This paragraph only relates to the base game. You randomly receive cards that "let" you join a faction, potentially removing the player choice. However, there are limited cards that do not require one faction to be ahead of the other, and they are faction specific. This means that when playing cooperatively, the only player that can win is the one lucky enough to have drawn the right cards for their faction. Otherwise, both players lose. When playing solo, you have limited, but dangerous incentive to help either side, since you might push them to victory before you. When playing competitvely, the faction influence cards become nearly worthless, since they require one team to dominate over the other. The winner would likely be the person lucky enough to draw the leading faction cards AND the non-faction cards. Lastly, you can end up with very anti-climactic endings, where no one wants to resolve the end mission for the faction that matches their faction cards (because no one would win) or where simply time runs out.

Therefore, my rules better tie everyone to factions from the start, and completely ignore the written side of the influence cards except for activating enemies. This helps restore both cooperative and competitive play, depending on what the players want to experience. By requiring the last faction track move to only happen by quests, it instead encourages players to participate in the best part of the game out of the box: the storytelling on the quest cards. The roleplaying aspect of Fallout should be about player choice, not dependent on random draws.

Ok. That's it for the basic fixes to the rules. I have tried to keep my fixes easy to learn, easy to use, and easy to remember. I am also going to post this in the FFG forums. Let me know what you think!

Edit: This was suggested in the thread, and I liked it so much I am adding it to my rules.
12) Power armor always adds immunity to radiation
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J. Chris Miller
United States
Plano
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I haven't finished a full game of this yet because the rules were a bit wonky for me with exceptions I had to keep looking up on the forums. I just get tired of doing that. I really wish companies would hire a professional rule-writer to do these things.

That said, the rules you propose seem really solid and more "Fallout-like." The only issue I have is with the last rule about ignoring text. Take this with a grain of salt because I haven't had nearly enough experience with the game, but I have seen a lot of people post about how the game was too long if you ignored the agenda card abilities.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John E
United States
Cary
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Some of these are good but others I think would add too many exceptions and things to worry about to create a good game experience.

I do like the idea about increasing the loot; out of the three games I've played exactly one item has been purchased from the shop. Maybe killing the 'bug/vermin' type enemies should give you 1 cap (from whatever glands/teeth/meat you harvest) and killing any other enemy type should always give you a loot card draw (so enemies with the loot icon would give you 2 draws).

It can also be hard to shop at all. Many times in settlements you either need to do a quest action instead or get an encounter that doesn't even let you shop. The one houserule I might add here is making each 'shop' action you get give you both 1 buy option AND 1 sell option.

The agenda card system still doesn't feel like the best game timer/scoring system. If expansions are eventually released I bet there will be some 'alternative scoring system' introduced that everyone will adapt. I don't know what a quick-fix for now might look like though; cycling the agenda deck is also the game timer so you can't just remove most or all of the faction agendas without making the game much quicker. Maybe remove all the faction agendas at the start so that all players get one of the others (explore the map, get caps, etc) instead. Then shuffle the faction agendas back in to make the main deck - that way no one will start out already locked in to one of the factions.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Day
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
1) In solo play, you get three actions per turn.
The game is already to easy. Unneeded.

2) All enemies grant caps equal to half their level rounded up.
Caps are plentiful. Unneeded.

3) All attacks and skill checks get to reroll 1 die 1 extra time.
Again, the game is already too easy. Unneeded.

4) Robots, Super Mutants, and Deathclaw-symbol monsters cannot cross blank tiles.
These monsters move so infrequently and it is trivial to avoid them. Plus the game is already too easy. Unneeded.

5) When flipping an unexplored tile, place the arrow so that it points toward the player's currently occupied space. The player resolves ties.
Might as well just let the player choose the orientation.

6) Enemies cannot move through difficult terrain without the retreat icon.
Pointless complexity.

7) Raiders cannot cross irradiated zones.
See above.

8) Magazines may also be discarded to grant 1 hit for the skill checks that grant rerolls with the matching S.P.E.C.I.A.L. or to grant 1 weapon reroll if the weapon uses the matching S.P.E.C.I.A.L.
Nice change as 2 XP is fairly inconsequential.

9) Super mutant characters may restore 1 rad when camping.
Not a bad idea.

10) The ghoul is not allowed to participate in the Pitt or Far Harbor.
Agreed about Far Harbor.

11) No agenda cards are dealt to players at the start of the game. Instead, each player must publicly declare loyalty to either faction at the start of the game. <snip>
I'm opposed to any rule that requires players to declare loyalty to earn victory. That completely removes any sort of subterfuge in a game that already lacks player interaction.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Zaleski
msg tools
mbmb
Seems like FF should put out an updated rule book online with these rules.

I can't stress rule number 2 enough. Of all the times I've played, I've only gotten extra caps once, and it still wasn't enough to buy anything in the store.

I also think that unless enemies are on an adjacent tile, they should move in a random direction instead of towards a player. It makes no sense for an enemy to move towards the closest player when that player is on the other side of the map. In the game they wouldn't chase you until they could hear or see you.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Ostyn
msg tools
Thank you for feedback!

To Aaron:

I disagree that the game is too easy, but each player has their own experience. In my opinion, this game is not the first one I would play for an intense tactical game. Instead, the primary mechanic I would play this for is the encounter and quest cards, and providing the players with an interactive choose-your-own-adventure. Therefore, I chose to focus on helping nudge the players along the adventure. The point of playing isn't to win necessarily, but to spend time in a roleplaying experience like Dungeons and Dragons. And what good dungeon-master doesn't fudge the die rolls every now and then? (If the players really needed it.)

I agree that publically declaring loyalty does remove any traces of subterfuge, but as far as I can tell, the game is not built for subtlety. Any action that players do is public knowledge, so you can't really "secretly" help one side or the other. I do allow for backstabbing your team though, by switching sides.

I also chose to have an algorithmic system for flipping tiles instead of player choice to avoid giving them the option of how the terrain should be encountered. If FFG had made the arrow point at a side instead of a corner, ties would never have needed to be broken.

Ultimately though these are house rules, so I don't care if you never use any of these suggestions. These were just some extras I added to make the game more enjoyable for the people I play it with.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donny Behne
United States
Fate
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
www.punchboardmedia.com/geaux-gaming/
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This belongs in the variant forum.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pete Miller
United States
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've played the game 4 times. Once for each scenario. And each time with different players. I've also played the CRAP out of the video game.

Here's my take:

1) In solo play, you get three actions per turn.
-- I don't intend to play solo, so I have no input here.

2) All enemies grant caps equal to half their level rounded up.
-- I like this, and will probably incorporate it into the game too.

3) All attacks and skill checks get to reroll 1 die 1 extra time.
-- I don't think this will add much, I probably won't do it, but I'd play your rule if we were playing together.

4) Robots, Super Mutants, and Deathclaw-symbol monsters cannot cross blank tiles.
-- Monsters don't move THAT much as it is, I don't see this as necessary. I'd leave this well enough alone.

5) When flipping an unexplored tile, place the arrow so that it points toward the player's currently occupied space.
-- I don't have a problem with this, but the way the tiles are made, I don't think it's going to change the map that drastically. I'd be willing to try it, but doubt it will bring much in terms of variance to the map.

6) Enemies cannot move through difficult terrain without the retreat icon.
-- Ok, again, the monsters don't really move that often, or that fast. I wouldn't bother with this rule.

7) Raiders cannot cross irradiated zones.
-- Thematically, the raiders ARE impacted by rads, albeit in a different way. It drives them crazy and makes them more aggressive. Also, in FO4 the character was frozen in time, while humans born to the world are adapted to the rads. I'd leave this well enough alone too.

8) Magazines may also be discarded to grant 1 hit for the skill checks that grant rerolls with the matching S.P.E.C.I.A.L. or to grant 1 weapon reroll if the weapon uses the matching S.P.E.C.I.A.L.
-- I like this, and will incorporate it into my house rules too.

9) Super mutant characters may restore 1 rad when camping.
-- I'd say all characters can recover 1 rad (except the Ghoul for obvious reasons) while camping.

10) The ghoul is not allowed to participate in the Pitt or Far Harbor.
-- Agreed

11) No agenda cards are dealt to players at the start of the game.
-- I don't like this fix to the problem. I'd prefer this: Deal 2 agenda cards to each player and they choose one to keep and the other to discard. The discarded cards go to the discard pile making the agenda deck a LITTLE thinner to start the game.
I like figuring out what people's loyalties are, that's part of the fun for me. I think the first player is first player too long. This would fix two birds with one stone.

I think the BoS character is broken as it is. Instead I would say: He gets two movement like everyone else, but can pay 1 cap to get 3. But he starts with 0 caps instead of 3. So in theory, he could pay two caps to move 6 spaces in one turn, but not early on. I also think the Power Armor should shield him from radiation tiles
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Scatliff
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
It's about time, too.
badge
I hate overtext but love irony.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
re: the magazines

In the video games, the role of the magazine has always been to give a bit of a boost in one specific area of the game. In Fallout 3, it was skill points. In Fallout 4, it was a unique perk. But in both games, it was a finite resource. It would help you get a little bit better, and from then on would be useless.

The board game models this behavior very well as is. For a character without the matching token, the game behaves as if you haven't gotten the full benefits of the magazines yet and therefore gives you a small boost. If you already have the token, the game behaves as if you've already reaped the full benefits of the magazines. This is both accurate and elegant. I see no need to change it.

Making magazines always have a guaranteed use does not model the actual function of a magazine in Fallout.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Radomir B.
Slovakia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SimonStern wrote:

Thematically, the raiders ARE impacted by rads, albeit in a different way. It drives them crazy and makes them more aggressive.


That's not so certain. While strong radiation in the Fallout universe can mutate people and degenerate their intelligence, transforming them into feral ghouls, raiders can be simply people savaged by natural de-evolution. Also we know many of them are junkies (Jet, Psycho, alcohol...).
As an old school Fallout fan I'd like to point out that not all Raiders in Black Isle/Obsidian Fallouts used to be sadist psychos chopping people to pieces and decorating their tents with intestines of their enemies. Some were just simple opportunist thieves, mercs and social outcasts trying to survive in unscrupulous ways. There is also a difference between raiders and tribals - tribals are even more primitive than some raider groups. It's a bit sad that 3 and 4 almost erased the distinction between these two social groups.

Quote:
I'd say all characters can recover 1 rad ... when camping


It doesn't make sense - radioisotopes don't leave organism just overnight. It would also make Radaway more useless. It is also a strategical element of the game to plan your path so that you avoid radiation if possible. That's what a post-nuclear game should be about. Radiation is supposed to be accumulating and taking its toll in the body.

Quote:
I also think the Power Armor should shield him from radiation tiles

Here I agree!


Regarding the idea of killed enemies dropping caps - do you folks really expect vermin, critters and robots to carry bottlecaps?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Scatliff
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
It's about time, too.
badge
I hate overtext but love irony.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The primary way of healing radiation in the video game is, of course, RadAway. But early in the game, or if you run out of RadAway, the most reliable way to deal with it is to visit a doctor at virtually any settlement, who will clean you up for a very modest amount of caps.

I think the right house rule for dealing with rads is to add a new shopping activity at a settlement: pay X caps to heal X rad damage (X can be any number in a single action). Vary cost as you see fit, but they should be healable on demand at a settlement.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Stevenson

Apex
North Carolina
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Admin: I moved this to the variant forum.

Thanks for this discussion!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Stevenson

Apex
North Carolina
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
SimonStern wrote:

11) No agenda cards are dealt to players at the start of the game.
-- I don't like this fix to the problem. I'd prefer this: Deal 2 agenda cards to each player and they choose one to keep and the other to discard. The discarded cards go to the discard pile making the agenda deck a LITTLE thinner to start the game.
I like figuring out what people's loyalties are, that's part of the fun for me. I think the first player is first player too long. This would fix two birds with one stone.


When you deplete the agenda cards, first player changes, but you also move the faction tokens up the influence track. So, wouldn't this also accelerate the game end?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Ostyn
msg tools
I agree with a lot of what I'm seeing. The added movement rules are maybe a bit overly complicated, so I would say that their inclusion really depends on how you want the game to play out, especially my suggestions for difficult terrain and irradiated zones. In one of my first plays (solo), I died relatively early against the glowing one who had wandered across the board. In retrospect, I probably could have retreated from the combat. I still think I'll include them in my own plays, because I like the ideas of natural barriers.

I really like the idea that all power armor should protect the player from radiation. That's one I will definitely add to the list.

I don't agree that all players should restore rads on camping, as that would effectively negate the hazard. I stand by the super mutant being the sole beneficiary of this rule. In Fallout 4, super mutants were completely immune to radiation, but I think that would be too great a benefit in this type of scenario. For everyone else, tread carefully.

My suggestion on how the game should end seems to be the most controversial, but I stand by the opinion that the vanilla system is in desperate need of revision.

To get the discussion moving, here's a list of the objectives of what I think is important in redesigning the influence/faction system. Not all of these may be achievable.

1) Players should always be able to join factions of their choice
2) Players should always be able to change loyalty (maybe, or you could be shunned past a certain point)
3) Players should be motivated, but not compelled to do the main quests
4) Players should always receive meaningful, logical rewards from completing influence and faction quests
5) The end of the game should never occur due to running out of cards
6) Players should be able to conceal their intentions, until they do act
7) The game should nudge the players towards ending the game (soft timer)8) When playing purely cooperatively or solo, the other faction should feel like a threat, but not an insurmountable one
9) A neutral player should be able to win

These are all objectives for what I would like the game mechanics to allow. In my initial revision, I was able to obtain points 1,2,3 (mostly), 4,5,7. Point 3 could be better, point 6 was discarded, point 8 could be improved, and point 9 was discarded.

Comparatively, the base game achieves (in my opinion): 3 (mostly), 6(ish), 8 (maybe), and 9.

Point 2 is somewhat problematic, because theoretically, unscrupulous players might change sides willy-nilly just to avoid combat. Some way of immutably joining a faction or losing its availability seems better.

My gut feeling for fixes to my rules for achieving 9 seems straightforward and immersive. First player to obtain 7 influence cards wins. Seven, because it is the same number of spaces of influence on the faction track. Again, the text on the influence card is not used. This seems especially important if you are going for a neutral win.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pete Miller
United States
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DoctorBox wrote:
SimonStern wrote:

11) No agenda cards are dealt to players at the start of the game.
-- I don't like this fix to the problem. I'd prefer this: Deal 2 agenda cards to each player and they choose one to keep and the other to discard. The discarded cards go to the discard pile making the agenda deck a LITTLE thinner to start the game.
I like figuring out what people's loyalties are, that's part of the fun for me. I think the first player is first player too long. This would fix two birds with one stone.


When you deplete the agenda cards, first player changes, but you also move the faction tokens up the influence track. So, wouldn't this also accelerate the game end?


Slightly, yes. I've yet to see the deck go to a third player, so I doubt it would have THAT much impact.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pete Miller
United States
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
medphys88 wrote:
I agree with a lot of what I'm seeing. The added movement rules are maybe a bit overly complicated, so I would say that their inclusion really depends on how you want the game to play out, especially my suggestions for difficult terrain and irradiated zones. In one of my first plays (solo), I died relatively early against the glowing one who had wandered across the board. In retrospect, I probably could have retreated from the combat. I still think I'll include them in my own plays, because I like the ideas of natural barriers.

I really like the idea that all power armor should protect the player from radiation. That's one I will definitely add to the list.

I don't agree that all players should restore rads on camping, as that would effectively negate the hazard. I stand by the super mutant being the sole beneficiary of this rule. In Fallout 4, super mutants were completely immune to radiation, but I think that would be too great a benefit in this type of scenario. For everyone else, tread carefully.

My suggestion on how the game should end seems to be the most controversial, but I stand by the opinion that the vanilla system is in desperate need of revision.

To get the discussion moving, here's a list of the objectives of what I think is important in redesigning the influence/faction system. Not all of these may be achievable.

1) Players should always be able to join factions of their choice
2) Players should always be able to change loyalty (maybe, or you could be shunned past a certain point)
3) Players should be motivated, but not compelled to do the main quests
4) Players should always receive meaningful, logical rewards from completing influence and faction quests
5) The end of the game should never occur due to running out of cards
6) Players should be able to conceal their intentions, until they do act
7) The game should nudge the players towards ending the game (soft timer)8) When playing purely cooperatively or solo, the other faction should feel like a threat, but not an insurmountable one
9) A neutral player should be able to win

These are all objectives for what I would like the game mechanics to allow. In my initial revision, I was able to obtain points 1,2,3 (mostly), 4,5,7. Point 3 could be better, point 6 was discarded, point 8 could be improved, and point 9 was discarded.

Comparatively, the base game achieves (in my opinion): 3 (mostly), 6(ish), 8 (maybe), and 9.

Point 2 is somewhat problematic, because theoretically, unscrupulous players might change sides willy-nilly just to avoid combat. Some way of immutably joining a faction or losing its availability seems better.

My gut feeling for fixes to my rules for achieving 9 seems straightforward and immersive. First player to obtain 7 influence cards wins. Seven, because it is the same number of spaces of influence on the faction track. Again, the text on the influence card is not used. This seems especially important if you are going for a neutral win.


I think the REAL fix for this is to deal two faction loyalty cards to each player, and then discard all the rest from the game. At some point you'll have to discard one or the other, since it's unlikely you can get to end-game scoring with both in your hand. Unfortunately, FFG didn't give us enough, or enough variety in the agenda cards to do that. :/ Hopefully expansions will bring additional agenda cards that are less generic and we can ditch all the duplicate loyalty agenda cards.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Decay
Germany
Hamburg
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
medphys88 wrote:
4) Robots, Super Mutants, and Deathclaw-symbol monsters cannot cross blank tiles.
The player should not be in deadly peril near the start of the game because they are unlikely to have found both armor and weapons necessary to survive encounters with these enemies. The enemies may move like normal on their own tiles, but cannot reach the player until someone has "released" them.[/b]
It sounds like the OP is placing monsters on the symbols from the open setup tiles, so that there are already robots and super mutants and what not at the beginning of the game. We never did this. Did we play wrong?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Gazdecki
United States
Lindsey
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Moppelkotze wrote:
medphys88 wrote:
4) Robots, Super Mutants, and Deathclaw-symbol monsters cannot cross blank tiles.
The player should not be in deadly peril near the start of the game because they are unlikely to have found both armor and weapons necessary to survive encounters with these enemies. The enemies may move like normal on their own tiles, but cannot reach the player until someone has "released" them.[/b]
It sounds like the OP is placing monsters on the symbols from the open setup tiles, so that there are already robots and super mutants and what not at the beginning of the game. We never did this. Did we play wrong?


If any of the tiles have monster symbols on them during setup, you place a monster of that type face up on the spot on the tile.

For example, on "The Mall" tile, there is a super mutant symbol on one of the spaces. You would put a super mutant tile on that spot during setup if playing with the scenario that uses The Mall.

As for the OP's ideas, had some thoughts as well:
1) In solo play, you get three actions per turn.
Not a terrible idea, but not sure if this would mess up the timing with the agenda cards.

2) All enemies grant caps equal to half their level rounded up.
Would it be easier to just give caps equal to their level? Your idea would be 1,1,2 as opposed to 1,2,3 if you just gave them equal to level.

3) All attacks and skill checks get to reroll 1 die 1 extra time.
I probably wouldn't play with this, as you already seem to get a fair number of rerolls. I might make it where you could do this at a loss of a hit point or a SPECIAL token or something.

4) Robots, Super Mutants, and Deathclaw-symbol monsters cannot cross blank tiles.
Interesting idea, but doesn't solve what I feel is the biggest issue (albeit in solo play) that the enemies simply funnel to you, so eventually you almost get boxed in to where you either have to take lots of radation damage, move very slowly thru rough terrain, or bash head first through enemies and hope you get good rolls.

5) When flipping an unexplored tile, place the arrow so that it points toward the player's currently occupied space. The player resolves ties.
No issue with that. Another idea would be to roll a d6 where 1 is per the rules, and clockwise 2-6.

6) Enemies cannot move through difficult terrain without the retreat icon.
Wouldn't complain, but probably wouldn't play this way either. Something I'd have to remember that doesn't seem totally thematic.

7) Raiders cannot cross irradiated zones.
I figure they have Rad-X or Radawy they stole from unsuspecting people, so they would be fine traversing the radiation.

8) Magazines may also be discarded to grant 1 hit for the skill checks that grant rerolls with the matching S.P.E.C.I.A.L. or to grant 1 weapon reroll if the weapon uses the matching S.P.E.C.I.A.L.
Not a bad use of it.


9) Super mutant characters may restore 1 rad when camping.

No strong feeling on this one. Haven't used the character so not sure how big a difference this would make.

10) The ghoul is not allowed to participate in the Pitt or Far Harbor.
For Far Harbor, I might say that the Radiation neither hurts nor helps them. They don't take radiation damage, but they also don't get healed. I believe in the video game they state the radiation in FH is different that in the Commonwealth, so it makes somewhat thematic sense. I don't remember the Pitt enough to really say one way or the other there.

11) No agenda cards are dealt to players at the start of the game.
This one is too game changing to me and I likely woulnd't play with it.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Decay
Germany
Hamburg
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Oh, so we indeed played wrong every game. I really thought we had the rules right after 4 games...blush Thanks for clarification.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Spudkitty

Idaho
msg tools
mbmbmb
I think if the shop cards could move more often, it would make the shopping option more exciting ... say after the Enemy Phase takes place.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Carroll
Australia
Sydney
NSW
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bruiser419 wrote:
Interesting idea, but doesn't solve what I feel is the biggest issue (albeit in solo play) that the enemies simply funnel to you, so eventually you almost get boxed in to where you either have to take lots of radation damage, move very slowly thru rough terrain, or bash head first through enemies and hope you get good rolls.


Or become death incarnate and go on a roaring rampage of revenge!

Well, sometimes it works.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Radomir B.
Slovakia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Spudkitty wrote:
I think if the shop cards could move more often, it would make the shopping option more exciting ... say after the Enemy Phase takes place.


Or maybe 5 asset cards could be drawn as an offer whenever someone decides to shop. Assets not bought are then shuffled back into the assets deck. If an effect instructs player to take an asset card from the shop, he looks at the top 4 cards from the asset deck, may take one and shuffle the rest back.
Because you don't know what the merchants in various settlements are selling until you visit the market... right?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Umstattd
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
All Hail Lelouch
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Let me get this strait.

You're trying to make this already really easy game... more easy.

I mean ok. If you like it. But I feel the problem is the game is too easy, not too hard.

I do like the idea of making the game have to last till the end of the quest and you have to have your faction to win in order to win. Though under this system it seems too easy to switch sides. And having an MVP of the winners is meaningless. Either you win or you don't.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Ostyn
msg tools
David Umstattd wrote:
Let me get this strait.

You're trying to make this already really easy game... more easy.

I mean ok. If you like it. But I feel the problem is the game is too easy, not too hard.

I do like the idea of making the game have to last till the end of the quest and you have to have your faction to win in order to win. Though under this system it seems too easy to switch sides. And having an MVP of the winners is meaningless. Either you win or you don't.


Thank you for your feedback. As mentioned in the title, this is me seeking feedback and discussion for a first draft of rule changes to smooth out the gameplay experience. The way I see it, my attempt at a patch is in alpha release.

Since posting this, I’ve listened to the feedback that many have given, and had more opportunities to play a few more times with different combinations of players. I largely have come to agree with most of the responses that some of my changes were too complicated or unnecessary. I’ve scratched rules 3, 5, 6, 7, and 12 in my own play.

I continue to stand by my original claim that the influence and faction system needs improvement. Largely, I think the game itself is unsure whether it wants to be PvP or PvE. From a few plays, I don’t think it’s very immersive as PvP; the staged quest cards treat all players as “you” collectively while added cards treat players as “you” singularly. I also stand by my claim that players really should be able to makeup their own choices on joining factions, based not on what cards they’ve drawn but on whose agenda they want their character to support.

I’m also not satisfied with my own solution to the factions either. When playing purely cooperatively, the opposing faction is almost nonexistent. Even if players are on opposing sides, the faction enemies don’t spawn nearly often enough. I’m working on figuring out a solution to this, but haven’t come up with anything yet. Do you have any ideas?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Gazdecki
United States
Lindsey
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
medphys88 wrote:
David Umstattd wrote:
Let me get this strait.

You're trying to make this already really easy game... more easy.

I mean ok. If you like it. But I feel the problem is the game is too easy, not too hard.

I do like the idea of making the game have to last till the end of the quest and you have to have your faction to win in order to win. Though under this system it seems too easy to switch sides. And having an MVP of the winners is meaningless. Either you win or you don't.


Thank you for your feedback. As mentioned in the title, this is me seeking feedback and discussion for a first draft of rule changes to smooth out the gameplay experience. The way I see it, my attempt at a patch is in alpha release.

Since posting this, I’ve listened to the feedback that many have given, and had more opportunities to play a few more times with different combinations of players. I largely have come to agree with most of the responses that some of my changes were too complicated or unnecessary. I’ve scratched rules 3, 5, 6, 7, and 12 in my own play.

I continue to stand by my original claim that the influence and faction system needs improvement. Largely, I think the game itself is unsure whether it wants to be PvP or PvE. From a few plays, I don’t think it’s very immersive as PvP; the staged quest cards treat all players as “you” collectively while added cards treat players as “you” singularly. I also stand by my claim that players really should be able to makeup their own choices on joining factions, based not on what cards they’ve drawn but on whose agenda they want their character to support.

I’m also not satisfied with my own solution to the factions either. When playing purely cooperatively, the opposing faction is almost nonexistent. Even if players are on opposing sides, the faction enemies don’t spawn nearly often enough. I’m working on figuring out a solution to this, but haven’t come up with anything yet. Do you have any ideas?


Well, I guess the question is how close to the video game do you want to be?

In the video game the faction that "wins" is always heavily influenced by the player. So the first rule would have to be that you have to declare loyalty to the faction that reaches the end of the chart to win.

The thing is, you have to somehow reward people who took a chance and picked the faction that won early instead of waiting until victory was almost assured. I don't knwo the specifics (just spit-balling here) but you'd want to give someone more VP if they declared loyalty in the green section vs if they declared 1 step form victory.

Another thing to consider would be to keep track of which player completes the quest for each faction, granting an additional # of VP/quest as not only are they loyal, but actively assisting.

Finally, you could also consider adding negative VP to any person who claims loyalty to one group, but completes a quest for the opposing faction, a saboteur of sorts as it were.

The only way you could really allow people to do this would be to hand each person an agenda card of each faction, which they hold on to. Once they choose one, the other is discarded. Some way would be needed to track when each person declared loyalty to whichever faction.

It seems like a lot of work though, so I don't know how useful this is.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.