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Subject: Fellowship Tokens rss

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Simone Bonechi
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What does it exactly means "The Ring-bearer player may never have more Fellowship tokens in play than those in the Fellowship pool"?

I understand that "in play" means on Frodo's Company Card (which means there can be at most two at the same time), but I do not undestand what is meant by "those in the Fellowship pool", since the actual number of tokens in the Fellowship poll can vary according to the number of Shadow results rolled by the Ringwraith player/s, or the effect of an Ally card.

Does it mean a general and absolute limit of three (or two if Frodo card has been flipped), regardless of the acutal number in the Fellowship pool?

Or does it mean that at any given time there must never be more tokens on Frodo's card than the actual number in the Fellowship pool?

Or are there other ways for a Fellowship token to be considered "in play" other than being on Frodo's card?
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Rob Pearson
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The fellowship pool is whatever is on the spot behind your screen that is for the fellowship tokens. Any tokens that can be spent are on Frodo's card. I am not sure why you say only 2 of them can be on his card. You could have all 3 of them. You just get to add one with Frodo's ability if you have less then 2 and if they roll any shadows you get to move more out to Frodo's card.

I believe there is an alley that will add one more token to the pool as well. So basically there are 3 places for the tokens.

Out of play - One to start the game and two if you flip Frodo
Fellowship Pool - Can be moved to Frodo's card with the ability at the beginning of turn or due to shadow dice rolls
Frodo's Card - Can be spent
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Kevin Chapman
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The Fellowship pool contains the number of tokens available to the Ring-bearer player which are not in play, starting at three. The Shadow results rolled by the Ringwraith player (as well as other game effects) award tokens from the pool to the Ring-bearer player. If there are no more tokens in the pool, no more can be gained by the Ring-bearer player until one is put back (spent without being removed permanently from the game). It's possible for there to be no tokens in the pool if all of them are in play or if they have all been permanently removed.
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Simone Bonechi
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"The Shadow results rolled by the Ringwraith player (as well as other game effects) award tokens from the pool to the Ring-bearer player. If there are no more tokens in the pool, no more can be gained by the Ring-bearer player until one is put back (spent without being removed permanently from the game)." That clarifies one blind spot for me, thank you.


I thought the rule meant that there could not be more tokens in in play on Frodo's card than the number still in the Fellowship pool, which puzzled me mightly, since it made very little sense.

If your is the correct answer (and I am sure it is), though, I must confess taht I find the rule rather pleonastic, unless I am missing something: of course there cannot be more tokens in play than the maximum number available to the Ring-bearer player in the Fellowship Pool.

And thank you Rob for your answer too: I said that no more than two tokens could be on Frodo's card at the same time because I thought that additional tokens were added to the Pool from out of play and not moved from the pool to Frodo's card.

Thank you all!
 
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Kevin Chapman
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Boniek wrote:
If your is the correct answer (and I am sure it is), though, I must confess taht I find the rule rather pleonastic, unless I am missing something: of course there cannot be more tokens in play than the maximum number available to the Ring-bearer player in the Fellowship Pool.

It's simply there to keep players from going into the box for tokens that are out of the game if an effect calls for more tokens to be awarded to the Ring-bearer than are available.
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James

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So if the game starts with 3 in the pool and I don’t use them
But somehow get something that lets me add 2... I can only add one... increasing my poop to 4... as there is no 5th token included in the game?
 
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David Williams
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Rocky123 wrote:
increasing my poop to 4...


gulp
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Kevin Chapman
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There is no game effect that increases the size of the pool during play. The fourth token is there for an optional balancing rule that allows a pool size of four from the beginning to give the Frodo player an advantage.
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James

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Orion3T wrote:
Rocky123 wrote:
increasing my poop to 4...


:gulp:



Bahahahah... sorry
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Shoosh shoo
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I would like to see a rule that lets u increase poop
 
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Dave K
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I also find the rules for Fellowship tokens confusing.

I think the main problem lies in the fact that nowhere in the rule book does it actually state how fellowship tokens are placed on Frodo's card.

The rules say the ring barer player receives a token. I took this to mean a token is placed in the pool and you spend tokens from the pool.

It would be a lot clearer if the rulebook simply said the tokens are placed in the pool at the start of the game. Any tokens received in the game are taken from the pool and placed on Frodo's card. Only tokens on Frodo's card are available to spend. Simples.



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Kevin Chapman
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Page 8 (setup):
Quote:
Set aside three Fellowship tokens, to form the Fellowship pool, and place them on the appropriate space on the Journey log.


Page 9 (receiving):
Quote:
The Ring-bearer player receives from the Fellowship pool one Fellowship token for each Shadow result rolled on the dice and places it on Frodo's Company card.


Page 15 (spending):
Quote:
During his turn, the Ring-bearer player can spend a maximum of one Fellowship token to draw an Ally card, removing it from Frodo's Company card and placing it back in the Fellowship pool.


I hope this clears things up.
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Viktor Karlsson Mantel
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Krieghund wrote:
Page 8 (setup):
Quote:
Set aside three Fellowship tokens, to form the Fellowship pool, and place them on the appropriate space on the Journey log.


Page 9 (receiving):
Quote:
The Ring-bearer player receives from the Fellowship pool one Fellowship token for each Shadow result rolled on the dice and places it on Frodo's Company card.


Page 15 (spending):
Quote:
During his turn, the Ring-bearer player can spend a maximum of one Fellowship token to draw an Ally card, removing it from Frodo's Company card and placing it back in the Fellowship pool.


I hope this clears things up.

Yes! I think thats the sentence on page 9;should be more highlighted. Its kind of a big deal that is almost hidden in the rules.
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Dave K
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Krieghund wrote:
Page 8 (setup):
Quote:
Set aside three Fellowship tokens, to form the Fellowship pool, and place them on the appropriate space on the Journey log.


Page 9 (receiving):
Quote:
The Ring-bearer player receives from the Fellowship pool one Fellowship token for each Shadow result rolled on the dice and places it on Frodo's Company card.


Page 15 (spending):
Quote:
During his turn, the Ring-bearer player can spend a maximum of one Fellowship token to draw an Ally card, removing it from Frodo's Company card and placing it back in the Fellowship pool.


I hope this clears things up.


Wow I can't believe I missed the final part of the sentence on page 9. I must have read pages 8,9 and 15 about 20 times trying to figure out how the tokens worked.

D'oh thanks Krieghund.

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Viktor Karlsson Mantel
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Can someone please help me understand how to set up the fellowship pool in the second part?

What Frodo already had on his card he seems to start with. But its the creating of the pool that is confusing. ”Three if Frodo is not flipped, two if Frodo is fliped, less the tokens on Frodos card”

Sorry I might just be bad at English, but I dont get it, ”less” then what?
 
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Kevin Chapman
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"Less the tokens on Frodo's card" means subtracting the tokens on the card. So if Frodo isn't flipped and there are 2 tokens on his card, there should be 1 (3 - 2) in the pool.
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David Williams
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Tolchock wrote:
Sorry I might just be bad at English, but I dont get it, ”less” then what?


The word 'less' can be used as a synonym for 'minus'.

a) 5 less 2 is 3
b) 5 minus 2 is 3
c) 5 - 2 = 3


Definitely not 'bad' English to not know this - it isn't a particularly common wording. So, you shouldn't feel this was obvious - the wording is a bit difficult to parse, even for a native English speaker.
 
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Murr Rockstroh
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Angband wrote:
Krieghund wrote:
Page 8 (setup):
Quote:
Set aside three Fellowship tokens, to form the Fellowship pool, and place them on the appropriate space on the Journey log.


Page 9 (receiving):
Quote:
The Ring-bearer player receives from the Fellowship pool one Fellowship token for each Shadow result rolled on the dice and places it on Frodo's Company card.


Page 15 (spending):
Quote:
During his turn, the Ring-bearer player can spend a maximum of one Fellowship token to draw an Ally card, removing it from Frodo's Company card and placing it back in the Fellowship pool.


I hope this clears things up.


Wow I can't believe I missed the final part of the sentence on page 9. I must have read pages 8,9 and 15 about 20 times trying to figure out how the tokens worked.

D'oh thanks Krieghund.

That sentence on Page 9 in Set Up should have been repeated on page 15 in the "Receiving Fellowship Tokens" section. I think it would be missed less. When I went to look up the rule, I went to page 15, not page 9. Because Page 15 is titled "Receiving Fellowship Tokens" I expected the full explanation to be there.

Until I found this thread, I was totally confused about how the pool worked.
 
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David Williams
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Murr wrote:
Angband wrote:
Krieghund wrote:
Page 8 (setup):
Quote:
Set aside three Fellowship tokens, to form the Fellowship pool, and place them on the appropriate space on the Journey log.


Page 9 (receiving):
Quote:
The Ring-bearer player receives from the Fellowship pool one Fellowship token for each Shadow result rolled on the dice and places it on Frodo's Company card.


Page 15 (spending):
Quote:
During his turn, the Ring-bearer player can spend a maximum of one Fellowship token to draw an Ally card, removing it from Frodo's Company card and placing it back in the Fellowship pool.


I hope this clears things up.


Wow I can't believe I missed the final part of the sentence on page 9. I must have read pages 8,9 and 15 about 20 times trying to figure out how the tokens worked.

D'oh thanks Krieghund.

That sentence on Page 9 in Set Up should have been repeated on page 15 in the "Receiving Fellowship Tokens" section. I think it would be missed less. When I went to look up the rule, I went to page 15, not page 9. Because Page 15 is titled "Receiving Fellowship Tokens" I expected the full explanation to be there.

Until I found this thread, I was totally confused about how the pool worked.


To be fair though, the player aids are pretty clear about this; they tell you to to give the Frodo player tokens for Shadow rolls during the refresh stage.
 
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Kevin Chapman
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One token is removed from Frodo's card and not placed back in the pool. (It is permanently out of the game.) See the FAQ.
 
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King Maple
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This whole rule is by far the worst in the rulebook. Having stuff behind the screen should 'belong' to the player to be used. Stuff on the table, in reserve, should be the 'pool'.
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Jeff M
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Boniek wrote:
..

Or does it mean that at any given time there must never be more tokens on Frodo's card than the actual number in the Fellowship pool?



That's the way the rule is written.

"The Ring-bearer player may never have more Fellowship tokens in play than those in the Fellowship pool"

The "pool" is the set of "not yet given to Frodo" Fellowship Tokens.
"In play" is the set of tokens which have been given to Frodo to use.

Therefore, if their are 2 tokens in "The Pool" and Frodo already has received one "in play" and available for his use, he may not receive another from "the pool" as that would mean there would now be more "in play" (2) than "in the pool" (1).

When I first read this rule I figured it had to be wrong.
How about something like;

Start by changing the term "Pool" to "Reserve" and get it out from behind the player screen.

"at the beginning of the game there are 3 "Fellowship Tokens" placed by the side of the board that will be made available to Frodo during the course of the game to use for various actions. We call this the "Token Reserve". As the game progresses, various game events may add or subtract tokens from the available "Reserve".

During the game, Frodo will receive 1 Fellowship Token for each "Shadow Result" rolled by the Nazgul Player during the "refresh step" at the beginning of each day. This is the main method by which Frodo will receive these tokens. Various card play events may also award tokens.
If the "Token Reserve" is empty when it comes time for Frodo to get a token, then he won't be able to receive one. As the "Token Reserve" refills during game play, tokens will again become available."






 
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Kevin Chapman
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It means that the Ringbearer player may not have more tokens in play than are available in the pool. If there are 2 in the pool, he/she may have both of them in play. This is explained in the section preceding the one you quoted.
 
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Jeff M
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Krieghund wrote:
It means that the Ringbearer player may not have more tokens in play than are available in the pool. If there are 2 in the pool, he/she may have both of them in play. This is explained in the section preceding the one you quoted.


Perhaps if they had written "TAKE MORE TOKENS" rather than "HAVE IN PLAY"?


 
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