Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Dungeon Degenerates: Hand of Doom» Forums » General

Subject: To Sean and Eric: Game Production Questions rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
L Foster

Ventura
California
msg tools
badge
Obsession begins where common sense ends.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Since my last post, I've been looking at the art sources and inspirations you spoke of. Exposure to this game has opened up a whole new culture/style I really didn't know much about.
I am more familiar with the pulp magazine and horror illustrators of the 20's, 30's, and 40's - one of my favorites being Lee Brown Coye who did covers and interior illustrations for Weird Tales and Arkham House (Lovecraft collections among others). If you haven't seen his work, take a peek. Your art creates a similar mood for me - one that I really enjoy.

As I have continued digging around in this new field, questions have come to my mind both about the game and art production and about your original hopes of the game.

1) When you first conceived of this game, were you planning on trying to sell it to another publisher, or was it always going to be produced by yourself? If you were trying to sell it, was your art always meant to be an integral part of the game's core? It doesn't seem like a 'typical' fantasy art style would capture the mood and flavor you infused your game with.

2) When creating the imagery for each monster, character, location, etc, did you produce multiple prototype drawings to capture the feel you wanted for the game? Did any of the characters or monsters just come out of your head the first time perfect? Did any predate the game from your other art? (someone more familiar with your art might already know this.)

3) For the images on the cards - how large are the drawings you utilized for the game components (cards, map, characters)? And though I didn't see originals listed on your website and did a quick on-line search, do you ever sell the original artwork you use for the game?

If any of these answers can be found elsewhere, please provide a link.

Thank you for your time,
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Radey
United States
EL CERRITO
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmb
1) Goblinko has been around for nearly two decades, publishing PORK & various other things, so it was always the plan to publish it ourselves. Sean's art was always going to be the art of the game, which was built up around it (as opposed to making a game system & then tacking art onto it). The game design was informed by the art as much as the art was informed by the game design. Since Sean & I have known each other for ~30 years it is quite easy for me to translate his creations into game terms & easy for him to take my concepts & turn them into drawings.

2) Sean doesn't do a lot of sketching or revisions, typically he does a very loose pencil sketch of the shapes and then goes in full bore with a sharpie without making any mistakes. This sort of technique requires that you have the experience of doing millions of drawings over decades, which Sean has. I have some of his character sketches from RPGs we made up on the fly at band practice back in 1993 or whenever.
That being said I definitely drew and redrew the map at least 8-9 times during the development of the game system (in my highly detailed & labor intensive style).
We are using concepts that we came up with & experiences we had when we were teenagers - so in that way we've been working on Dungeon Degenerates since the early 90's.

3) I have the original of the Jack Slasher character drawing - he is about 8" tall. Once of the KS backer levels was for an original piece of art for the game so there are a handful of people out there with original drawings. I'm sure Sean would be open to selling others.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sean Äaberg
United States
Portland
OR
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hey! I'm totally influenced by Lee Brown Coye - as is one of my primary influences John Blanche - part of my work in "Weirdo Art" is to emphasize the chain between all of these illustrators of this Weird World.

1. I came up with the idea for Dungeon Degenerates in like 2006 as I wrote about in your previous post - Katie my wife & business partner pushed me to finish it as a fighting card game back in 2016 or something - I finished up all of the initial art & then was presented with the problem of not being inspired to write a battling card game. At almost that exact time Eric texted me about something or other - probably Bolt Thrower & I said - "Hey, do you wanna design a card game around this art I have?" Eric said yes & disappeared only to return with the skeleton of what became "Hand of Doom" - which was much larger in scope than what I had intended to but me & Katie were immediately excited about making a board game. We have run GOBLINKO since 1999 & that was the intended publisher & we never considered anything else because that's how we do stuff. I am the principal art director, artist & designer for everything we do so that was never a question. Eric is also an artist & had a pretty fleshed out map that I worked from to create the final Hand of Doom board.
2. As noted - a lot of the monsters were already done when Eric started working on the game - but as he worked on it - the game expanded & then when he came back to us with what he'd worked on - it just started growing more from there in my head & then it grew more in Eric's head & so forth until our brains were splattered all over the place. I didn't do any drawing more than once & I didn't do any concept sketches. Everything is pretty much as it was born except for the map which Eric had to fiddle about with to get right for game play - so he had all these pieces of tracing paper & overlays & all that so he could tune it correctly to the mechanics. As I am the artist, it is my company & it is my game - the art is what drove the game's creation. But also - Eric & I have done projects together since the early 90s - we did Punk zines, a Metal Punk band "the Masked Men" & we also worked on a never published RPG "Children of the Moon" - all of which heavily flavors Dungeon Degenerates.
3. Most of the monster & character drawings are done on half a sheet of regular card-stock & then I do two per sheet. So they're about 7 or 8 inches tall. Items are done so that they're about 3 inches wide in the original art. The map - I think I did it on four pieces of 16" wide card. None of the art has been up for sale - some of the pieces have been given to people. There was a kickstarter backer level where you got a piece of art that hand full of people backed at. I tend to hold on to my original art but I've also exponentially increased the amount of work I've been doing & there might be an "art for sale" section of https://goblinkomegamall.com/ in the future.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johnny W
United States
Long Lake
Unspecified
flag msg tools
http://www.centipedepress.com/art/leebrowncoye.html
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pat E. Cakes
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
This is a great thread.

Would you be willing to share how many copies you had printed?
If you sell out, do you plan another run?

This is the best theme, best art (by far), best humor, best feel, of any game I’ve ever played. The design is so strong as well.

As an old 80s punk skater bass player, this is so perfect for me and many others I imagine.

All the best,
Patrick
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
L Foster

Ventura
California
msg tools
badge
Obsession begins where common sense ends.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sean and Erik: Thank you very much for providing details on the creation of this game. I'm finding the history fascinating to read about. For a lot of games, it feels like they go through the process of Creator who submits it to Publisher who them doles out various responsibilities to Artists and Playtesters. DD seems to have no middle men to adjust the vision of the game.
As for his art, it sounds like I would have liked the Kickstarter reward you offered.

The rest of this is more about Lee Brown Coye and his work, so I apologize for diverging away from games and DD for a bit.

lemmingsunday wrote:


Ow! Centipede's retrospective book on Coye I've been eyeing for the last couple years, but at $195 (but 500 pages) I haven't been able to pull the trigger. I own the books he illustrated in the 1970's for Karl Wagner's Carcosa House (collection's of Manly Wade Wellman and another of Hugh B. Cave's short stories.)
[Centipede Press also publishes a "Weird Fiction" review that covered Erol Otus's illustrations from 1970's D&D, another of my favorite artists. I think it was the most recent issue.]

I do have Arts Unknown, another collection and overview of Coye's work.
There's another hardback out: Pulp Macabre, which I just now ordered because, well, I can afford $40 way more that the above price....(now I need to scrape up enough to order DD.)

See interview of the book publishers here for Pulp Macabre:
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/avy9kz/pulp-macabre-lee-b...
The title of the article is a little different: 'Pulp Macabre': The Art of a Guy Who Used to Bring Severed Heads to the Bar
(The editor, Mike Hunchback, has a blog I've never gone to, but it has an interesting title: www.witchcraftnation.blogspot.com.)

Last note: I got to talk to Wagner in 1989 at the World Fantasy Convention in Seattle, a few years before he died. He wrote the story "Sticks" based on a true story Lee Brown Coye published in a newspaper column called Chips and Shavings (1960's). It told about walking through the back woods of New York and coming across an eerie scene of hanging, woven bundles of sticks. These images later became prominent in much of his work. (And even seem to have been adopted for the movie "Blair Witch Project".)
More details about this are here (which is only 1 of 6 sections on this artist):
http://tellersofweirdtales.blogspot.com/2015/02/lee-brown-co...

Thank you for bearing with me. Before I got into games, collecting horror/supernatural fiction/art of from the early 20th century to the 1980's was my fixation.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Radey
United States
EL CERRITO
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmb
Sean Aaberg wrote:
Eric said yes & disappeared only to return with the skeleton of what became "Hand of Doom" - which was much larger in scope than what I had intended to but me & Katie were immediately excited about making a board game.


I did in fact design a monster battling card game version of DD, although only 2 people have ever played it. I felt the format of Hand of Doom would be better suited for telling the stories that could be told about these rich characters, so I made a larger prototype to present as well. Sean & Katie seemed to like it quite a bit & it felt more in tune with the types of games that sean & I both grew up playing (neither of us really got into magic when it came out)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sean Äaberg
United States
Portland
OR
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If I'm going to go into all this time & effort writing responses you're going to have to get my name right "L".
3 
 Thumb up
3.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sean Äaberg
United States
Portland
OR
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We made 2000 games & are on our way to selling out - we will reprint.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
L Foster

Ventura
California
msg tools
badge
Obsession begins where common sense ends.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sean Aaberg wrote:
If I'm going to go into all this time & effort writing responses you're going to have to get my name right "L".

gulp
Ah hell, I feel like a jerk.

I'm sorry, Sean. For the past few weeks, I've been following and occasionally adding to a kickstarter comments section for a game I backed that had some issues. I received the wrong version of the game. The designer's name is Chris, and he's been great, but in my head I completely superimposed his name over yours (all game designers look the same on forums, don't they?) (Answer, no, no they don't.)

Teacher's Punishment: I want you to write Sean's name 50 times.
SeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSean
SeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSean
SeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSeanSean
SeanSean
(This doesn't seem effective when all I need to do is cut and paste.
Next punishment:

pay a $3.00 geek gold punishment.
(Fine assessed and paid.)






I am now placing my fingers in a Chinese finger trap until they behave.

(But only after I order the game as I don't want to wait for the reprint....)
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
L Foster

Ventura
California
msg tools
badge
Obsession begins where common sense ends.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sean, The game is now ordered with your three Adventure History Books.

Thank you for putting up with me.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.