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Subject: Ivits space station + round booster for range rss

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Joel Oakley
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Just wanted to verify that the Ivits cannot use the round booster to gain +3 range and also take their special action to place a space station farther away. Correct?

I believe this is the case since each octagon action space is a discrete action.
 
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Dave Eisen
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Correct. For precisely that reason.
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James Wolfpacker
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Correct. You can use QIC to extend range to place a space station.
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Erik Burigo
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JamesWolfpacker wrote:
Correct. You can use QIC to extend range to place a space station.


I think you forgot a "not" particle, here.
 
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Joel Oakley
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Painkeeper wrote:
JamesWolfpacker wrote:
Correct. You can use QIC to extend range to place a space station.


I think you forgot a "not" particle, here.


I think James is correct. The rules specify that the rules for accessibility follow those for "Building a Mine." Since the rules for accessibility for building a mine allow for QIC use to temporarily increase range (as a free action), I assume the same applies for the space station of the Ivits.
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James Wolfpacker
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Using a QIC to extend range is not a full action - it's a conversion. I prefer the terminology free conversion to free action as to not confuse actions with resource conversions. Therefore, you can use a QIC while taking the action to place a space station.

edit: ninja by less than a min!
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Erik Burigo
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Joakley815 wrote:
Painkeeper wrote:
JamesWolfpacker wrote:
Correct. You can use QIC to extend range to place a space station.


I think you forgot a "not" particle, here.


I think James is correct. The rules specify that the rules for accessibility follow those for "Building a Mine." Since the rules for accessibility for building a mine allow for QIC use to temporarily increase range (as a free action), I assume the same applies for the space station of the Ivits.


JamesWolfpacker wrote:
Using a QIC to extend range is not a full action - it's a conversion. I prefer the terminology free conversion to free action as to not confuse actions with resource conversions. Therefore, you can use a QIC while taking the action to place a space station.

edit: ninja by less than a min!


I think it's better for me to go to sleep. snore
You are definitely right and I misread your comment.
Sorry for the added confusion.
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Robert
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For Der Schwarm (and their generic English translation equivalent ) it could be actually a good idea to use a QIC in order to place a space station a bit further away, e.g. next to a juicy cluster of planets which they plan to colonize next, but which is just that one step too far away to reach directly. Of course in the long run, they'll have to bridge the gap with either more space stations, or their extra-expensive satellites.
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Reddish22
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DocCool wrote:
For Der Schwarm (and their generic English translation equivalent :p) it could be actually a good idea to use a QIC in order to place a space station a bit further away, e.g. next to a juicy cluster of planets which they plan to colonize next, but which is just that one step too far away to reach directly. Of course in the long run, they'll have to bridge the gap with either more space stations, or their extra-expensive satellites.


Can they place satellites without adding buildings to their federation? This is one thing that was unclear to me because the rules said: "All other rules for forming a federation apply, including building satellites and gaining federation tokens. To build a satellite during this action, you must spend one Q.I.C. instead of discarding one power."

To me that made it sound like they can only drop satellites if they are building onto the federation a multiple of 7. I did not read that to mean that they can drop satellites to expand. (I get that you're talking about space stations and they can obviously drop those - but this was a question I was left with after I played them last night).
 
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Robert
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You're correct that they can only drop satellites when they form a federation (as is with all other factions too). But they can drop their space stations as a special action wherever they want (and can reach). Also they can colonize planets which are not connected to their existing cluster(s). However, when forming a federation, it must be by expanding the existing federation cluster (if any). So if you have a federation cluster worth 10 power here and a separate planet cluster worth 7 power there, you can't just form a federation from the 7 power cluster; instead you need to connect the 7 power cluster to the 10 power cluster via satellites.

"In the long run" in my posting above refers to "when they want to use it for forming more federations".
 
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Joel Oakley
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DocCool wrote:
Also they can colonize planets which are not connected to their existing cluster(s). However, when forming a federation, it must be by expanding the existing federation cluster (if any). So if you have a federation cluster worth 10 power here and a separate planet cluster worth 7 power there, you can't just form a federation from the 7 power cluster; instead you need to connect the 7 power cluster to the 10 power cluster via satellites.


Must it really be by "expanding" the existing cluster? For example, suppose the existing federation cluster has 13 power, and then a mine in this cluster is upgraded to a trading station. My understanding is that it is now valid for the Ivits to gain another federation token without actually adding any new planets to the existing federation.

The other sentences quoted lead me to believe that you actually agree with what I described. I think you were making the point that the Ivits cannot form two separate federation clusters. They only gain new federation tokens by increasing the total power of the existing federation -- either by adding new planets/space stations or by upgrading existing structures (or both over multiple turns). Is this correct?
 
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Robert
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You expand your federation to become a bigger federation. It doesn't matter whether this happens due to adding more planets, or by upgrading buildings. Expansion is not limited to "grow in size", but also includes "grow in value".

It will be very rare though that Ivits form a federation purely out of the planets which already contributed to the previous federation. whistle
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James Wolfpacker
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DocCool wrote:
It will be very rare though that Ivits form a federation purely out of the planets which already contributed to the previous federation. whistle


Not really. They can have 1 PI and 1 Academy in their Federation and upgrade a Lab to an Academy to take the 4pw PI/A tech and add 4 power to their Federation. If this brings it to the next level, they can declare a larger Federation on one of their later turns. Keep in mind that they are not forced to declare Federations so they (and all factions) can save their Federations if R6 is Federation Scoring.
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Bobrov Alexander
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If the power of my federation is 21, and I received only one token for 7pw, can I take two more federations (two separate actions) or 14pw federation is my lost profits?
 
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Joel Oakley
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bobral wrote:
If the power of my federation is 21, and I received only one token for 7pw, can I take two more federations (two separate actions) or 14pw federation is my lost profits?


You may gain two federation tokens in that case. The rule is that the total power of the federation must be at least 7 x (the number of federation tokens you already have plus one) (not including the one you might have gained from the top of the Terraforming research track).

So, if you have one token, the power needed to gain a new one is 14 or more. You can do so for one action. Now you have 2 tokens, and the power needed to gain a new one is 21 or more (which you have in your example).
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Robert
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JamesWolfpacker wrote:
DocCool wrote:
It will be very rare though that Ivits form a federation purely out of the planets which already contributed to the previous federation. whistle


Not really. They can have 1 PI and 1 Academy in their Federation and upgrade a Lab to an Academy to take the 4pw PI/A tech and add 4 power to their Federation. If this brings it to the next level, they can declare a larger Federation on one of their later turns. Keep in mind that they are not forced to declare Federations so they (and all factions) can save their Federations if R6 is Federation Scoring.
Well, aren't you smart.

Obviously they can form a huge 21 power conglomerate and then form three federations one after the other. If you consider that "forming a federation out of the planets of the previous one": good for you. angry

Btw. your example sucks, as it obviously requires at least one additional planet beyond PI+AC+AC to reach 14.

 
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James Wolfpacker
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DocCool wrote:
JamesWolfpacker wrote:
DocCool wrote:
It will be very rare though that Ivits form a federation purely out of the planets which already contributed to the previous federation. whistle


Not really. They can have 1 PI and 1 Academy in their Federation and upgrade a Lab to an Academy to take the 4pw PI/A tech and add 4 power to their Federation. If this brings it to the next level, they can declare a larger Federation on one of their later turns. Keep in mind that they are not forced to declare Federations so they (and all factions) can save their Federations if R6 is Federation Scoring.
Well, aren't you smart.

Obviously they can form a huge 21 power conglomerate and then form three federations one after the other. If you consider that "forming a federation out of the planets of the previous one": good for you. angry

Btw. your example sucks, as it obviously requires at least one additional planet beyond PI+AC+AC to reach 14.

I didn’t state everything that could possibly be in the alliance. However even with just those 3 buildings at 4pw level they will be able to reach 14pw because it would have to be at least the 2nd round with 2 space stations giving an extra 2pw. I don’t think it is mathematically reasonable (probably not possible either but not going to try) to get PI+A+A in R1.

 
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