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Subject: Fallout Variant rss

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Pablo Tamariz
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Enemies:
Do not flip up the enemy token when the agenda card activates the corresponding enemy, instead just move the enemy token one space closer to the nearest player. If the activated enemy token is next to one of the players flip up the enemy token to reveal it.

Logic: If you are in the wasteland you would not be able to know what is ahead of you until it’s close to you.
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Ian Spaulding
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Upside-down enemy tokens are used as game-state to indicate enemies which are currently inactive (these will flip up the next time they are activated; this can happen either because of a recent respawn or due to the Retreat ability, and it's important to keep these distinct because enemies in this state cannot be interacted with and do not affect quest objectives. You would need some other way to keep track of this, like a token or something.
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Christopher Scatliff
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pneuma08 wrote:
Upside-down enemy tokens are used as game-state to indicate enemies which are currently inactive (these will flip up the next time they are activated; this can happen either because of a recent respawn or due to the Retreat ability, and it's important to keep these distinct because enemies in this state cannot be interacted with and do not affect quest objectives. You would need some other way to keep track of this, like a token or something.

I'm not sure you understand what the OP is arguing for.

All he's saying is that if you have to activate an enemy type, but there's a face-down enemy token of that type that's not adjacent to a survivor, then instead of flipping it just move it like a regular creature. Only flip it if it has to be activated on or next to a survivor. His proposal doesn't require any extra tracking of anything.

That said, there are still problems with it. If the enemy is aggressive, it may be missing opportunities to be attacking people if it lies dormant for too many turns. And it also is not targetable by player fight actions for survivors who are out hunting.

 
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Ian Spaulding
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Oh, I see, it's delaying the flip to be when adjacent rather than right away.

So instead of flip -> move -> move adjacent, it's move -> move adjacent -> flip. So in theory it should end up in the same space with the same number of actions, all else being equal.

It still would lend itself to some confusion if players themselves move adjacent to an enemy that has been freshly spawned or retreated. It's unclear whether or not they can interact with the enemy or if it counts for/against some quests at that point.
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Bruce Gazdecki
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The only issue I see would be if an enemy has a ranged icon. It normally can activate and attack without needing to be in the same space but this would prevent you from doing that.
 
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Christopher Scatliff
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Bruiser419 wrote:
The only issue I see would be if an enemy has a ranged icon. It normally can activate and attack without needing to be in the same space but this would prevent you from doing that.

That's not an issue. Imagine this scenario (the numbers indicate activations of that ranged enemy):

1: flip enemy face up (2 tiles away)
2: move enemy (now 1 tile away)
3: enemy attacks

Under this variant, it would go like this:

1: move enemy (now 1 tile away, still face down)
2: flip enemy face up (since it's now adjacent)
3: enemy attacks

Its attack is neither prevented nor delayed.
 
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Bruce Gazdecki
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Smoo wrote:
Bruiser419 wrote:
The only issue I see would be if an enemy has a ranged icon. It normally can activate and attack without needing to be in the same space but this would prevent you from doing that.

That's not an issue. Imagine this scenario (the numbers indicate activations of that ranged enemy):

1: flip enemy face up (2 tiles away)
2: move enemy (now 1 tile away)
3: enemy attacks

Under this variant, it would go like this:

1: move enemy (now 1 tile away, still face down)
2: flip enemy face up (since it's now adjacent)
3: enemy attacks

Its attack is neither prevented nor delayed.


Sorry. I thought you said same apace. I missed adjacent.
 
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Pouya Ostadpour
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Ok. Then if an enemy doesn't activate adjacent to a player, it remains inactivated but just moves. Then it's a lot easier to do quests and things in the wasteland as they are inactive. Also, some enemies are aggressive and while they're face down, they're not! Or maybe I don't get your reasoning. If it's as it is, you should think about fixing these issues.
 
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Aaron Day
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Smoo wrote:
Its attack is neither prevented nor delayed.

I see what he's doing but while the rule may seem thematic it actually makes the game easier. Because you can run over to a inactive enemy and perform actions in it's spot, safe with the knowledge that it won't hurt you. Plus, there are several Perks that let you move long distances, moving to areas full on inactive enemies is also much safer.

I guess as long as you realize you're making things easier for yourself, it's ok. But it's my opinion that the game is too easy already.
 
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as. nielo
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Adding a small mark on the token reverse to indicate agressiveness may work the player-walks-by-enemy issue.

It’s worth attention but I think the original design works better. Keep in mind there are already different tokens for different groups of enemy so the most of the surprise element is already spoiled.
 
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Ian Spaulding
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Hedgehobbit wrote:
Smoo wrote:
Its attack is neither prevented nor delayed.

I see what he's doing but while the rule may seem thematic it actually makes the game easier. Because you can run over to a inactive enemy and perform actions in it's spot, safe with the knowledge that it won't hurt you. Plus, there are several Perks that let you move long distances, moving to areas full on inactive enemies is also much safer.

I guess as long as you realize you're making things easier for yourself, it's ok. But it's my opinion that the game is too easy already.
I think in the spirit of the rule you would flip over the enemy if you move adjacent to it as well as when it moves adjacent to you. So I think it would actually be harder since you couldn't plan your turn around knowing whether an enemy was ranged or aggressive.
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