Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
45 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Kingdom Death: Monster» Forums » General

Subject: With 1.5 is it worth hunting leavel 2 & 3 monsters? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
sean lukie
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In the first kdm it was generally accepted that there was no real benefit of hunting level 2 or 3 monsters because the difficulty ramp up was ridiculous and only rewarded two extra resources. We have started a new 1.5 campaign and was wondering if this changed?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
k c
msg tools
mbmb
L2 Antelope is a great quarry.

Edit: I better add a spoiler tag...

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Hunting the 1.5 Antelope Level 2 can have very good benefits. It now gives 6 basic and 7 antelope resources. Add the bug patch and acanthus terrain resources, plus extra crit resources and it can be a huge haul.

(Edit: The Screaming Armor Set is awesome. That deadly Antelope Hunt event that might make you fight a +1 level Lion is now optional. You can choose to ignore it now in 1.5. It's too bad the Lion L2 is still only 4/6 resources.)

As of around LY7, our level of tech got fairly good. Even with Diabolical trampling us every round, we can quickly kill the Antelope. Everyone has a full set of armor, range/reach and good evasion/strength. We just have to watch our insanity levels.

We are finding it easy to kill Level 2 White Lions and Antelopes (the level 2 Hunt itself seem more dangerous than the creatures at the end of it).

My problem with level 2 monsters is the +2XP, but only +1WP. We are forced to hunt Level 1 because otherwise our survivors will retire before they finish their Weapon Mastery.

We recently tried our first L1 Phoenix because it is +1XP/+1WP, which is where we need to be. It was challenging, and though it was only L1, it felt as difficult as a L2 Lion/Antelope.

Haven't tried any L3 monsters yet.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C SS
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The antelope is certainly worth hunting at least at level 2, i'm not sure about the others. One lvl3 phoenix for the crest is probably a good idea too.

This is imho one of the weak points of the core (not sure if it changes with expansions). The monsters are much more unique at lvl 2+ once they start getting more traits, but the rewards don't scale enough with the difficulty.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Wirtz
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Level 2 has always been okay after a certain point, and there are mechanics that make level 3 something to do, finally. They still don't scale appropriately.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fen Batten
Sweden
flag msg tools
Stop Poking!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
With the right loadout and strategy the L1 Antelope gives similar amounts of resources to the L2 for a lot less risk, so I'm not even sure the L2 antelope is worth it unless you are aging people up quickly or opening the Barber Surgeon location.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gerrit G.
Germany
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
We found hunting the level 2 Antelope well worth it due to the extra resources. And once you get good enough to crush level 1s, fighting the level 2 version just becomes more challenging and more fun.

At one point, we will try the level 2 Lion, but his resource reward seems just so measly compared to the Antelope. It didn't need to be as good as the Antelope's, but one or two more resources would have been greatly appreciated.

The main bother with level 2s is that you gain more hunt experience but not more weapon proficiency at the end of the showdown. This makes reaching weapon mastery harder. Which just feels wrong. If you are fighting more powerful monstes with your weapons, shouldn't you learn more?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Igor Persin
Croatia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Yea, so best 1.3 version quarry anthelope got buff and is even more worth hunting, while lion&phoenix were even 'nerfed' in a way ...yey

I do hope that some of those hybrid armor sets from GC make it so that you do wanna hunt other stuff to get them.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Barille
msg tools
I find the level 2 Lion to be totally worthless, minimal reward for increased difficulty, but the worst part, 2 years of XP aging your people too fast. If your going for level 2 the antelope is the way to go.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
k c
msg tools
mbmb
Once a L2 Lion was easy to fight, we have decided to hunt it twice in a row.
We still needed ammonia and some great cat bones to build a Zanbato and another Kingspear. On the first hunt, from just the lion events, every survivor gained +2 courage, +1 understanding, and we got ammonia!

The Lion hunt events seem more rewarding than other quarries. L2 = more lion hunt events.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Wirtz
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Falccor77 wrote:
I find the level 2 Lion to be totally worthless, minimal reward for increased difficulty, but the worst part, 2 years of XP aging your people too fast
Yeah, I'm fairly convinced they thought it would be a buff, but it isn't one. I'd take 2 XP and 2 weapon proficiency, or optional 2 XP, but 2 and 1 is just rough. About the only good thing is getting kids who don't need training some random age buffs; it mostly makes Nightmare Training even better, later.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sven Wasberg
msg tools
mbmbmb
I think the amount of resources for level 2 and 3 monsters is ok.
At least I never had the feeling that the overall amount of resources wasn´t enough to build the gear that I wanted.
Of course you can get very unlucky and never draw the one resource you need, but that will happen very rarely.
The mainreason why you should hunt higher level monsters is fun and challenge.
I don´t think I would enjoy KDM nearly as much without high level monsters.
I even believe one of the weak points of KDM is that the legendary monsters aren´t strong enough (or some combinations of gear and the right survivor are just way to strong).
I would love to have legendary monsters which are strong enough to be a challenge for even the broken survivor builds.

Edit: In my opinion you should rebalance the rewards fpr level 2 monsters.
Phoenix, White Lion and Antelope should give you the same number of resources.
In my case I used the number of resources you would get for a level 2 phoenix (buffs the lion and nerfs the antelope).
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Webster
United Kingdom
Leeds
Yorkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I can't believe nobody has mentioned that it's literally impossible to finish the 1.5 campaign only fighting level 1 monsters now.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Igor Persin
Croatia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Elizablumi wrote:
I think the amount of resources for level 2 and 3 monsters is ok.
At least I never had the feeling that the overall amount of resources wasn´t enough to build the gear that I wanted.
Of course you can get very unlucky and never draw the one resource you need, but that will happen very rarely.
The mainreason why you should hunt higher level monsters is fun and challenge.
I don´t think I would enjoy KDM nearly as much without high level monsters.
I even believe one of the weak points of KDM is that the legendary monsters aren´t strong enough (or some combinations of gear and the right survivor are just way to strong).
I would love to have legendary monsters which are strong enough to be a challenge for even the broken survivor builds.

Edit: In my opinion you should rebalance the rewards fpr level 2 monsters.
Phoenix, White Lion and Antelope should give you the same number of resources.
In my case I used the number of resources you would get for a level 2 phoenix (buffs the lion and nerfs the antelope).


Have you fought lion king? From what I read, he is kinda broken op.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J J
Canada
Toronto
flag msg tools
Avatar
It's not even amount of resources, it's the massive risk of exposing valuable survivors to more random hunt events coupled with the general need to send your best survivors against against a more difficult version of the monster.

And yes, the annoying extra Hunt XP is just another punishment for a few measly extra resources.

Against the Screaming Antelope it's probably better to

Spoiler (click to reveal)
...crit-farm a level 1 with Cat's Eye Circlet and high luck attacks, set up the AI deck with Rawhide Headband to intentionally let it Chow Down recovering all its AI cards, then crit-farm it again.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James J

Texas
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
WrenHong wrote:
I can't believe nobody has mentioned that it's literally impossible to finish the 1.5 campaign only fighting level 1 monsters now.


I can't comment from experience (I'm still a noob), but it sounds like you are referring to changes in the Watcher, no?

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/24562648#24562648

It's still a bit of a bummer to hear that farming level 1 quarries is the best avenue, at least until you hit whatever gate the Watcher imposes that requires a higher level hunt.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sven Wasberg
msg tools
mbmbmb
smurfORnot wrote:
Elizablumi wrote:
I think the amount of resources for level 2 and 3 monsters is ok.
At least I never had the feeling that the overall amount of resources wasn´t enough to build the gear that I wanted.
Of course you can get very unlucky and never draw the one resource you need, but that will happen very rarely.
The mainreason why you should hunt higher level monsters is fun and challenge.
I don´t think I would enjoy KDM nearly as much without high level monsters.
I even believe one of the weak points of KDM is that the legendary monsters aren´t strong enough (or some combinations of gear and the right survivor are just way to strong).
I would love to have legendary monsters which are strong enough to be a challenge for even the broken survivor builds.

Edit: In my opinion you should rebalance the rewards fpr level 2 monsters.
Phoenix, White Lion and Antelope should give you the same number of resources.
In my case I used the number of resources you would get for a level 2 phoenix (buffs the lion and nerfs the antelope).


Have you fought lion king? From what I read, he is kinda broken op.


Do you mean the lion god or one of the legendary lions?
I have fought all of them and they were all very doable.
The only lions I haven´t fought till now are the level 3 lion god and the lion knight.
The legendary white lion looks very intimidating at first, but if you have the right gear and one or two very good survivors you can kill him before he can do much dangerous stuff to you.

Quote:
It's still a bit of a bummer to hear that farming level 1 quarries is the best avenue, at least until you hit whatever gate the Watcher imposes that requires a higher level hunt


I don´t think that is true.
Higher level monster have a bigger ai deck.
This means you have a lot more chances to crit them.
Together with a good hunt phase you sometimes can get the full resource deck from them.
If you are well prepared the longer hunt phase is the biggest risk for you.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erik Honn
msg tools
We haven't really gotten as for as level 2 monsters, but it did strike me when reading the book that the risk/reward didn't feel particularly balanced. I kind of imagine the group looking at it and going "nope, not worth it".

How about something like:
- Only 1 hunt xp regardless of level (as that seemed like a deterrent more than a bonus).
- Level 2 - You get to choose one of the monster specific resources instead of randomizing it. This still counts for the total amount of resources drawn, so the Lion level 2 becomes 4 basic, 5 random lion, 1 chosen lion.
- Level 3 - Same as level 2 and you get 1 extra weapon proficiency.

So level 2 still gives the same amount of resources, but the main incentive to go for it is to get that specific resource you are lacking for a particular piece of gear. Not more stuff, just more control. Level 3 lets you go for any masteries you are lacking later on, in preparation for the end game.

Obviously I don't know what I am talking about since I still have limited experience in the game, so I have no idea if that would be balanced and won't mod things myself yet, but it's always fun to theorize anyway
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
sean lukie
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well its certainly unfortunate that the level 2 + are still not worth the fight (except for what seems the antelope). I'm not on board with the fight them solely for fun and challenge. KDM has a TON of swing with random hunt events etc. that can just simply kill a survivor. I'm ok with all of that, but then the reward has to justify it. Otherwise if you're playing the game the way its intended (make your settlement survive at all costs) you'd play it as safely as possible.

So, I think all this said, we will most likely use the level 2 antelope rewards for all level 2's to give some incentive to fight them.

Thanks for the responses guys.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Webster
United Kingdom
Leeds
Yorkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We reached LY11 in our first playthrough. We were fighting level 2 lions and antelopes from year 5 onwards. It was great.

Admittedly, we were lucky innovating Paint and Inner Lantern very early and some level 2 fights were challenging but we only lost one survivor during level 2 fights.

Ultimately it was mostly events that wiped us out. Regal Visit and Armoured Strangers both took maximum toll from us. We had Murder 3 times, Plague twice. Good times!

We did some nice ceasing to exist from being unprepared for the Phoenix too. Who knew?

Anyways, Level 2's seem fine to me.
Personally I'd recommend playing rules as written at least once before going all house-ruley.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
sean lukie
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We've played for over a year and a half, if you're fighting a level 2 lion on ly 5 I'd say you most likely are playing incorrectly.

Edit: or you are playing meta where you purposely go into antelope to farm way more resources than you actually should be getting by purposely not killing him, making sure he does nothing but heal up and not have any other ai left on ly 1-4. We don't play that way as we don't feel that is the intention.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fen Batten
Sweden
flag msg tools
Stop Poking!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
smurfORnot wrote:
Have you fought lion king? From what I read, he is kinda broken op.

Only if you are not prepared. When somewhat prepared he can basically be soloed by one guy. He's a very disappointing monster compared when to the DBK.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Webster
United Kingdom
Leeds
Yorkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ellindar wrote:
We've played for over a year and a half, if you're fighting a level 2 lion on ly 5 I'd say you most likely are playing incorrectly.

Edit: or you are playing meta where you purposely go into antelope to farm way more resources than you actually should be getting by purposely not killing him, making sure he does nothing but heal up and not have any other ai left on ly 1-4. We don't play that way as we don't feel that is the intention.


Nope. Neither of those things. We didn't struggle with the butcher so thought why not?

Like I said, it was challenging but we pulled it out of the bag. We aren't gaming noobs with reading incomprehension issues. How might we have played it wrong exactly? What rules changes happen between level 1 and level 2 lions that are hard to grasp?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
BG.EXE
United States
flag msg tools
I favor Euros, but I like pretty much all games.
badge
Make the kinds of posts you want to read.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I mean cunning is a pretty big deal.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Webster
United Kingdom
Leeds
Yorkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
boardgamesdotEXE wrote:
I mean cunning is a pretty big deal.


Yep. We had dash and surge, 2 suits of rawhide for survival regen, a spear, a bow, darts.

We also had butcher's cleaver and 2 survivors with Immortal until they got all murdery.

We also hit our 15 population society principle pretty much straight away, so we got off to a strong start. In retrospect we were lucky, no doubt. But does it really sound that implausible to you?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Watson
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
ellindar wrote:
We've played for over a year and a half, if you're fighting a level 2 lion on ly 5 I'd say you most likely are playing incorrectly.

Not really - the Butcher and the WL are somewhat similar in terms of how they can be dealt with so a party prepared for one will usually do well against the other. The surprising thing would be also being able to hunt L2 Antelopes at that point since they do generally require a significantly different approach. It's not that unusual to be able to take on one or the other by LY 5/6, I'm not sure it's possible to be equally well equipped to handle both.
Of course it can also be luck. In theory you could kill an L3 WL in LY 1 if you manage to throw your stone and hit the right card ...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.