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Subject: Elven unions : i give up : too hard to assembly... rss

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pilum pilum
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What's wrong with Games Workshop ?

Do they want to repulse their consumers ?

I offered the Elven Union team to my nephew (19 years old).

He was unable to assembly the team.
I understand why : each model requires about 10 pieces to assembly : a nightmare !

It is the LAST team I bought from GW, unless they change things like that.

Where can I find an Elven Union team from another miniatures seller ?
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Gordon Watson
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Re: Elven unions : i give up : to hard to assembly...
The Elves do seem a bit of a change in mini approach - the previous teams were 2 or 3 piece virtually snap together affairs and then the elves......

What were they thinking?
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Daniel Takai
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Re: Elven unions : i give up : to hard to assembly...
Well, the GW products are targeted at people that like to assemble and paint minis. I actually think it's kind of nice that you need to put in work to get your game to the table. It's not for everybody though, I understand. Maybe pick up a kit that's easier to assemble?
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Re: Elven unions : i give up : to hard to assembly...
takai wrote:
Well, the GW products are targeted at people that like to assemble and paint minis.


Except that isn't the case for the other teams. The orcs, humans, dwarfs and skaven are basically push-fit, and cut into only a few pieces. They did that on purpose to make the game more accessible, so why suddenly change that approach for the elves (which a lot of people have been looking forward to)?

I've been assembling miniatures for years, and I've been buying GW stuff for more years than I care to say, so I don't mind how many bits they cut their models into; but I think this was a big misstep for how they are pushing out their BB teams.

And as for picking up a kit that's easier to assemble... Well, there's only this option for BB elf players, unless they go old school or turn to a third-party company.
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Re: Elven unions : i give up : to hard to assembly...
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
takai wrote:
Well, the GW products are targeted at people that like to assemble and paint minis.


Except that isn't the case for the other teams. The orcs, humans, dwarfs and skaven are basically push-fit, and cut into only a few pieces. They did that on purpose to make the game more accessible, so why suddenly change that approach for the elves (which a lot of people have been looking forward to)?

I've been assembling miniatures for years, and I've been buying GW stuff for more years than I care to say, so I don't mind how many bits they cut their models into; but I think this was a big misstep for how they are pushing out their BB teams.

And as for picking up a kit that's easier to assemble... Well, there's only this option for BB elf players, unless they go old school or turn to a third-party company.


+1000
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Re: Elven unions : i give up : to hard to assembly...
Games workshop have put themselves into a bit of a strange position - when the other blood bowl teams they were criticized by "traditional games workshop modelers" for not allowing people variety to customise poses and that there were identical models in the team.

Their answer is obviously this kit which has a lot more variety but a lot harder to put together but then this alienates the "traditional board gamer" that mainly takes interest in the games rather than the models.

Having recently put together the latest warhammer 40K set i was surprised at how complicated their models were too. I was expecting a newbie friendly snap together kit with slot bases but instead its involved a fair amount of cutting and glue....
 
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Re: Elven unions : i give up : to hard to assembly...
Optix47 wrote:


Having recently put together the latest warhammer 40K set i was surprised at how complicated their models were too. I was expecting a newbie friendly snap together kit with slot bases but instead its involved a fair amount of cutting and glue....


Sorry for the slight tangent, but just in case you weren't aware, there are actually three starter sets for 40K. The First Strike set includes push-fit easy build models that go together without glue, and that's the one I recommend for people new to the hobby.

The other two sets (Know No Fear and Dark Millennium) contain slightly more complicated models that do require glue. However, they are still significantly easier than some of the fully customisable sprues for additional units.

On the plus side, GW has just released a range of "easy build" units for plague marines and primaris marines - new foot units and vehicles - so they're still trying to balance the knife edge there. Anything labelled "easy build" is a great option for people who don't care about customising and just want some great models on the table.
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Re: Elven unions : i give up : to hard to assembly...
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
Optix47 wrote:


Having recently put together the latest warhammer 40K set i was surprised at how complicated their models were too. I was expecting a newbie friendly snap together kit with slot bases but instead its involved a fair amount of cutting and glue....


Sorry for the slight tangent, but just in case you weren't aware, there are actually three starter sets for 40K. The First Strike set includes push-fit easy build models that go together without glue, and that's the one I recommend for people new to the hobby.

The other two sets (Know No Fear and Dark Millennium) contain slightly more complicated models that do require glue. However, they are still significantly easier than some of the fully customisable sprues for additional units.

On the plus side, GW has just released a range of "easy build" units for plague marines and primaris marines - new foot units and vehicles - so they're still trying to balance the knife edge there. Anything labelled "easy build" is a great option for people who don't care about customising and just want some great models on the table.



Well, there you go - I did not know this! (The 40k box belonged to a friend and I was just putting the models together for him). Thanks!
 
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Re: Elven unions : i give up : to hard to assembly...
Optix47 wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
Optix47 wrote:


Having recently put together the latest warhammer 40K set i was surprised at how complicated their models were too. I was expecting a newbie friendly snap together kit with slot bases but instead its involved a fair amount of cutting and glue....


Sorry for the slight tangent, but just in case you weren't aware, there are actually three starter sets for 40K. The First Strike set includes push-fit easy build models that go together without glue, and that's the one I recommend for people new to the hobby.

The other two sets (Know No Fear and Dark Millennium) contain slightly more complicated models that do require glue. However, they are still significantly easier than some of the fully customisable sprues for additional units.

On the plus side, GW has just released a range of "easy build" units for plague marines and primaris marines - new foot units and vehicles - so they're still trying to balance the knife edge there. Anything labelled "easy build" is a great option for people who don't care about customising and just want some great models on the table.



Well, there you go - I did not know this! (The 40k box belonged to a friend and I was just putting the models together for him). Thanks!


You're welcome. The First Strike set is very small, but a solid introduction. With 40K, if you're going to stick with it, eventually you have to bite the bullet and deal with some of the more complex stuff. Maybe that's GW's thinking with the elves... if you're still playing BB, by now you're ready for more complicated stuff. The problem there is for those players who were waiting for the elves to get involved in the game in the first place!
 
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David Munch
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Re: Elven unions : i give up : to hard to assembly...
I prefer complex teams with multiple poses and non-similar models, so for me this is a really good thing. I really don't mind glueing loads of things together, and actually love to see them slowly coming together.

Of course, I am also into the painting/collecting hobby, so...
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David Loyd-Hearn
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Re: Elven unions : i give up : to hard to assembly...
I echo the others and really like the elven team. But that said, I understand where you are coming from. All I can say is never try Malifaux or Bolt Action. Their minis are even harder to build.
 
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Thain Esh Kelch wrote:
I prefer complex teams with multiple poses and non-similar models, so for me this is a really good thing. I really don't mind glueing loads of things together, and actually love to see them slowly coming together.

Of course, I am also into the painting/collecting hobby, so...


I really like multiple poses too..
Look at the Human and Orc team, and also the Skavens : there are multiple poses here, but WITHOUT the pain of gluing bad designed miniatures...
 
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This is like faulting Ravensburger for releasing puzzles that are too complex. Games Workshop is a miniatures games company. For decades, miniatures hobbyists have enjoyed the challenges of assembling, converting, and painting their models. The boxed set is great for someone to get started in the hobby. If newcomers enjoy it and want to pursue the hobby further, they can put the time and effort to learn a few things, make mistakes, and experience an important aspect of playing miniatures games. If that aspect turns you off, you can't fault the company for throwing a bone to the more experienced hobbyists who put Games Workshop on the map.
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Lemonpips wrote:
This is like faulting Ravensburger for releasing puzzles that are too complex. Games Workshop is a miniatures games company. For decades, miniatures hobbyists have enjoyed the challenges of assembling, converting, and painting their models. The boxed set is great for someone to get started in the hobby. If newcomers enjoy it and want to pursue the hobby further, they can put the time and effort to learn a few things, make mistakes, and experience an important aspect of playing miniatures games.


GW released the game and tried to make it appealing to boardgamers by making the models easier to assemble. They then released further teams in the same format. For a year, they maintained that approach - simple base set teams, with customisation options and more complicated star players and big dudes from Forge World.

During that time, a lot of people were excitedly awaiting their elf team.

Then suddenly, they release the elves in a much more complicated set.

I can certainly see why anybody waiting expectantly for an elf team would be unhappy, because it's an unexpected change of approach.
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Roger Bartels
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
Lemonpips wrote:
This is like faulting Ravensburger for releasing puzzles that are too complex. Games Workshop is a miniatures games company. For decades, miniatures hobbyists have enjoyed the challenges of assembling, converting, and painting their models. The boxed set is great for someone to get started in the hobby. If newcomers enjoy it and want to pursue the hobby further, they can put the time and effort to learn a few things, make mistakes, and experience an important aspect of playing miniatures games.


GW released the game and tried to make it appealing to boardgamers by making the models easier to assemble. They then released further teams in the same format. For a year, they maintained that approach - simple base set teams, with customisation options and more complicated star players and big dudes from Forge World.

During that time, a lot of people were excitedly awaiting their elf team.

Then suddenly, they release the elves in a much more complicated set.

I can certainly see why anybody waiting expectantly for an elf team would be unhappy, because it's an unexpected change of approach.


Look, I have read and understand everything you wrote. I just disagree that the release is a bad thing.
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Lemonpips wrote:


Look, I have read and understand everything you wrote. I just disagree that the release is a bad thing.


Don't get me wrong. I'm not disagreeing with you in general. If this was a second set of orcs, or a set of specialists for an existing team, I think that's fair game. If you want to start playing 40K, for example, you can start with the easy build stuff, but eventually you have to get more involved in the hobby, or the hobby just isn't right for you. So, yeah, I think you're right when you say that eventually people need to experience more of what makes miniature games a great hobby.

I just think this was the wrong release to make that change. Treating the elf players differently to everyone else is an odd move, and certainly a bit of a shame if it stops some people giving the game a shot.
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Not sure if I'm off-topic or not but what I'm more concerned about is not the difficulty to assemble the minis but the fact that the 2016 minis are quite unreadable.
When I see a new mini released, it generally takes me seconds before I can get its physionomy.
And I'm talking about both GW and FW minis.
 
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Lemonpips wrote:
This is like faulting Ravensburger for releasing puzzles that are too complex. Games Workshop is a miniatures games company. For decades, miniatures hobbyists have enjoyed the challenges of assembling, converting, and painting their models. The boxed set is great for someone to get started in the hobby. If newcomers enjoy it and want to pursue the hobby further, they can put the time and effort to learn a few things, make mistakes, and experience an important aspect of playing miniatures games. If that aspect turns you off, you can't fault the company for throwing a bone to the more experienced hobbyists who put Games Workshop on the map.


You are right for some points, but it is the unexpected change of approach about miniatures of Bloodbowl that I DO NOT understand.
For Necromunda, the strategy is clear (experienced hobbyists strategy), and it is fair to me.
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The Goblin booster wrecked me. Got these elves for Christmas. Am worried.
 
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Brion Lienhart
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If you haven't built a lot of minis, there are things you can do to make it less difficult.

Use a good quality plastic cement, not super glue. I love this stuff. Try a model train store if your FLN game store doesn't have it.

Don't cut everything off the sprue at once. Only cut off the parts you are specifically working on.

Don't try to glue everything all together at once. Juggling a half-dozen loose parts at the same time is a nightmare. Take one model, cut out the torso and legs, and glue them together. Put it down, then go to the next one and glue its legs to the torso, etc. Go back to the first one, and glue the legs to the base, lather, rinse, repeat. If you have to, wait a couple minutes between steps for things to firm up and stop wobbling around.

For the Elven Union specifically I did, Legs/Torso. Then the chestpiece and head. Then glued the face to the head. Then the arms. Then the shoulderpads.

I also recommend getting some sprue clippers as well as your X-Acto knife.

One more thing. There's been speculation that the reason they made it this way is so the EU team can be a base for the High Elf and Dark Elf teams too. Using different heads/helmets, arms & shoulder pads to differentiate the teams.
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brionl wrote:
If you haven't built a lot of minis, there are things you can do to make it less difficult.



That's all really good advice. (Although I personally wouldn't recommend working on several models at once when people are starting out. Even now I tend to go one at a time, unless I'm building ranks of space marines or something like that, just to make sure I don't get myself in a bit of a pickle.)

I would also add, read the first page of the assembly guide carefully - the bit that explains all the little symbols and what the colour-coded diagrams mean. I know some people skip that, so they don't realise that certain images are alternative builds rather than completely new models.

Clippers and plastic glue are essential in my book. Trying to cut sprues with a knife is definitely not recommended.

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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
brionl wrote:
If you haven't built a lot of minis, there are things you can do to make it less difficult.



That's all really good advice. (Although I personally wouldn't recommend working on several models at once when people are starting out. Even now I tend to go one at a time, unless I'm building ranks of space marines or something like that, just to make sure I don't get myself in a bit of a pickle.)

I would also add, read the first page of the assembly guide carefully - the bit that explains all the little symbols and what the colour-coded diagrams mean. I know some people skip that, so they don't realise that certain images are alternative builds rather than completely new models.

Clippers and plastic glue are essential in my book. Trying to cut sprues with a knife is definitely not recommended.



Oh man, I can't imagine removing GW models from a sprue with a knife. Clippers are a must, and any $4.00 pair will work. The $33 GW clippers aren't better than the cheaper ones you can buy at a department store.
 
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alienux wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
brionl wrote:
If you haven't built a lot of minis, there are things you can do to make it less difficult.



That's all really good advice. (Although I personally wouldn't recommend working on several models at once when people are starting out. Even now I tend to go one at a time, unless I'm building ranks of space marines or something like that, just to make sure I don't get myself in a bit of a pickle.)

I would also add, read the first page of the assembly guide carefully - the bit that explains all the little symbols and what the colour-coded diagrams mean. I know some people skip that, so they don't realise that certain images are alternative builds rather than completely new models.

Clippers and plastic glue are essential in my book. Trying to cut sprues with a knife is definitely not recommended.



Oh man, I can't imagine removing GW models from a sprue with a knife. Clippers are a must, and any $4.00 pair will work. The $33 GW clippers aren't better than the cheaper ones you can buy at a department store.


I had a cheapo pair of clippers for years. When they broke recently, I needed a new pair fast, and the quickest option was to buy the only things available in my local store - GW clippers. I think my cheapo pair was the better option, because the GW ones don't have a grip. I find them a bit slippy-slidey when you use them, and it takes a bit of getting used to.
 
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Tom Colddie
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I fully agree with the initial poster, I love BB but the Elves were the last team I bought, at least until I learn that the future teams are push-fit again. They are definitely to hard to assemble and to brittle for me, similarly thin Skaven were a breeze to put together.
 
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Rob Stevenson
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I wonder if the greater number of parts for the elf miniatures was a hangover from the original plan to release resin conversion packs so that the single Elven Union box could be modified into Dark, High or Wood Elves. This is why all the Elf teams are in Death Zone 1.

That plan got shelved early on, but if sculpting choices had already been made, the lead times and work involved might perhaps have mitigated against reducing the number of parts.
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