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Subject: Adjacent? rss

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Ryan Wolfe
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In this game, is in the space the same as adjacent?

I ask because Animal Husbandry says you can build a city adjacent to a settler. Could you use the card to build a city in the same space as your far away wagon?

You can build over a settler without the card, so it would be weird if Animal Husbandry introduced an extra restriction - but other techs get weaker in some respects as they advance, so I'm not certain.

 
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James Mathias
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0 hr wrote:

In this game, is in the space the same as adjacent?

I ask because Animal Husbandry says you can build a city adjacent to a settler. Could you use the card to build a city in the same space as your far away wagon?

You can build over a settler without the card, so it would be weird if Animal Husbandry introduced an extra restriction - but other techs get weaker in some respects as they advance, so I'm not certain.



Adjacent cannot mean in the same space, that would not be adjacent at all.
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Ryan Wolfe
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Are you the designer or author (serious question) or just someone stating your opinion?

There are many, many, rule sets out there that use the word "adjacent" to include the space in question. So many that I expect most experienced gamers consider it the default interpretation. When it makes a significant difference (as it does here), any well-written rule set will clarify the matter explicitly.

I agree that given no other information and with a strict reading of the words on the card, you cannot use Animal Husbandry to build on the same hex as a Settler (and this is how I played it). But, given how the rest of the game, and gaming culture, works - I feel that there is a fair chance the intent is otherwise.





 
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James Mathias
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0 hr wrote:
Are you the designer or author (serious question) or just someone stating your opinion?

I'm just some guy.

0 hr wrote:
There are many, many, rule sets out there that use the word "adjacent" to include the space in question. So many that I expect most experienced gamers consider it the default interpretation. When it makes a significant difference (as it does here), any well-written rule set will clarify the matter explicitly.

I've not read a single ruleset where adjacent defined the originating space, or included it. But I've only read around 1900 rulebooks, so there might be some out there that do misuse the word adjacent, and allow it to include the originating space. I've never seen one. I would be interested in some examples of rulesets that use adjacent as meaning both neighboring and originating space.

0 hr wrote:
I agree that given no other information and with a strict reading of the words on the card, you cannot use Animal Husbandry to build on the same hex as a Settler (and this is how I played it). But, given how the rest of the game, and gaming culture, works - I feel that there is a fair chance the inent is otherwise.

What other part of the ruleset for Dawn, allows building on an originating space and defines that as being adjacent? Serious question, as I cannot find that in the rules anywhere.
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wayne r
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I believe you are overthinking this.

Yes, normally, you would be able to build a city on the space occupied by a caravan. However, the 3rd part of that card specifically says adjacent NOT on. If you wanted to build a city on a caravan, you would have had to resolve that on the 2nd part of that card.

If you think about it that card is awesome because it breaks the rules allowing you to build adjacent when normally you are not allowed to.

I would like to blame my keyboard for the number of edits...
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Oni no board wrote:
Yes, normally, you would be able to build a city on the space occupied by a caravan. However, the 3rd part of that card specifically says adjacent NOT on. If you wanted to build a city on a caravan, you would have had to resolve that on the 2nd part of that card


I think this is a more useful answer and I appreciate it actually addressing the concern.
It's a fair question and there have been alot of questions regarding the phrasing and application of alot of rules. The issue doesn't seem to be vocabulary or reading proficiency.
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Pouya Ostadpour
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I understand the rules somehow differently.

Yes, we normally can build a city on a caravan, but the caravan hex itself must match the building rules, including the one about being in friendly spaces. So you normally can't build a city on a caravan far away from home and out of reach of friendly spaces. But with animal husbandry, now you could build on a spot adjacent to those caravans, even outside friendly spaces.

And friendly spaces, I'm citing from p7 of the rulebook, are "the spaces that contain a player's cities or control tokens", not a caravan, stating specifically that "Caravans do not cause a space to be friendly or rival".

I assume we always can build a city on a hex which has control token, because that hex is, at least for the most part, adjacent to another friendly space, but not always on caravans. It's not like we could send out our caravans somewhere and build something on it, unless we have Animal Husbandry, i.e. Industry level II so that we can build around caravans considering other building rules. But if we upgrade to level III unfortunately we lose this power!


0 hr wrote:

You can build over a settler without the card, so it would be weird if Animal Husbandry introduced an extra restriction - but other techs get weaker in some respects as they advance, so I'm not certain.



I'd appreciate if you tell me where in the rulebook states that we can build over a caravan, or as you say, a settler, far away from home.


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James Mathias
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happypooya wrote:
I'd appreciate if you tell me where in the rulebook states that we can build over a caravan, or as you say, a settler, far away from home.


Page 9 under Building Cities

Quote:
The player cannot build on a space that contains any component other than a caravan or a friendly control token. If built on a caravan, the components share the space; if built on a friendly control token, the token is removed from the map and returned to its player.
 
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Pouya Ostadpour
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Page 9 under Building Cities

Quote:
The player cannot build on a space that contains any component other than a caravan or a friendly control token. If built on a caravan, the components share the space; if built on a friendly control token, the token is removed from the map and returned to its player.
[/q]

I assume you're wrong, as I described before. It doesn't say you can build on a caravan, anywhere your caravan is! It says you can't build on a space occupied unless that space is occupied by a caravan. It's totally different. It should still fill other criteria.
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James Mathias
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happypooya wrote:
I assume you're wrong, as I described before. It doesn't say you can build on a caravan, anywhere your caravan is! It says you can't build on a space occupied unless that space is occupied by a caravan. It's totally different. It should still fill other criteria.


Wrong about what? You asked where in the Rulebook building on a Caravan appeared, I gave you direct quote, and page number. I'm not making any claims one way or another. I merely gave you the relevant part of the rulebook.
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Pouya Ostadpour
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jmathias wrote:
happypooya wrote:
Page 9 under Building Cities

Quote:
The player cannot build on a space that contains any component other than a caravan or a friendly control token. If built on a caravan, the components share the space; if built on a friendly control token, the token is removed from the map and returned to its player.


I assume you're wrong, as I described before. It doesn't say you can build on a caravan, anywhere your caravan is! It says you can't build on a space occupied unless that space is occupied by a caravan. It's totally different. It should still fill other criteria.

Wrong about what? You asked where in the Rulebook building on a Caravan appeared, I gave you direct quote, and page number. I'm not making any claims one way or another. I merely gave you the relevant part of the rulebook.


I just want to clarify and don't want to argue anymore. I asked where in the rule book states that we could build on a caravan, as you put it, "in the same space as your far away wagon". I said you're wrong, I meant you're wrong about your interpretation. I'm referring to your initial question sir. I wanted to help. It's OK if you don't want it
 
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James Mathias
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happypooya wrote:
jmathias wrote:
happypooya wrote:
Page 9 under Building Cities

Quote:
The player cannot build on a space that contains any component other than a caravan or a friendly control token. If built on a caravan, the components share the space; if built on a friendly control token, the token is removed from the map and returned to its player.


I assume you're wrong, as I described before. It doesn't say you can build on a caravan, anywhere your caravan is! It says you can't build on a space occupied unless that space is occupied by a caravan. It's totally different. It should still fill other criteria.

Wrong about what? You asked where in the Rulebook building on a Caravan appeared, I gave you direct quote, and page number. I'm not making any claims one way or another. I merely gave you the relevant part of the rulebook.


I just want to clarify and don't want to argue anymore. I asked where in the rule book states that we could build on a caravan, as you put it, "in the same space as your far away wagon". I said you're wrong, I meant you're wrong about your interpretation. I'm referring to your initial question sir. I wanted to help. It's OK if you don't want it


I'm not the Original Poster.
 
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Brandon Wilson
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happypooya wrote:

I'd appreciate if you tell me where in the rulebook states that we can build over a caravan, or as you say, a settler, far away from home.


It doesn't. You are right that, in order to build, a space must be friendly. Caravans do not make a space friendly, as per the rule you quoted on page 7 of the rulebook. Mr. Mathias most likely did not read your question in its entirety before responding.
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James Mathias
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CptSkamerica wrote:
happypooya wrote:

I'd appreciate if you tell me where in the rulebook states that we can build over a caravan, or as you say, a settler, far away from home.


It doesn't. You are right that, in order to build, a space must be friendly. Caravans do not make a space friendly, as per the rule you quoted on page 7 of the rulebook. Mr. Mathias most likely did not read your question in its entirety before responding.


No, I did. I was pointing out the part of the rulebook I was sure the OP was referring to. I wasn't saying I agree or that it was right, just where in the rulebook it stated you could build on Caravans, and likely where the original poster got his idea from. As that is the only place in the rulebook where it mentions building on a caravan.

Probably should have just stayed out of it though.
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Pouya Ostadpour
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jmathias wrote:
happypooya wrote:
jmathias wrote:
happypooya wrote:
Page 9 under Building Cities

Quote:
The player cannot build on a space that contains any component other than a caravan or a friendly control token. If built on a caravan, the components share the space; if built on a friendly control token, the token is removed from the map and returned to its player.


I assume you're wrong, as I described before. It doesn't say you can build on a caravan, anywhere your caravan is! It says you can't build on a space occupied unless that space is occupied by a caravan. It's totally different. It should still fill other criteria.

Wrong about what? You asked where in the Rulebook building on a Caravan appeared, I gave you direct quote, and page number. I'm not making any claims one way or another. I merely gave you the relevant part of the rulebook.


I just want to clarify and don't want to argue anymore. I asked where in the rule book states that we could build on a caravan, as you put it, "in the same space as your far away wagon". I said you're wrong, I meant you're wrong about your interpretation. I'm referring to your initial question sir. I wanted to help. It's OK if you don't want it


I'm not the Original Poster.


Yeah you're right thumbsup
 
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