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Subject: Need help! What do we wrong? rss

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Guido Günther
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We just got smashed the the 6th time.
Reading the Forums here, I can see that a lot of people played through right to the Gold Smoke Knight.

Well, at the Moment I see no way to achieve this.
As mentioned before, we got smashed the 6th time and no campaign went further than Lantern Year 12.
Most ended around Lantern year 6 or 7.

Is it just our bad dice rolls?
For example: Today our Survivors had hunted down a White Lion, came back to the Village, and the Settlement Event was Murder. A bad dice roll and two survivors were dead. The following story event was armored strangers and the village consisted of 8 survivors. Another bad dice roll and we were down to 3 survivors. Our next Quarry finished us.

Things like this happen all the time.
On average one Survivor dies every Lantern Year.

So maybe someone can give us an advice how to survive??? Please???

Thank you.
 
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Fen Batten
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OK so gear.

Aim for the following before the Butcher.

Defense:
Rawhide full sets (as many as you can get)
Monster Grease (2+)

Support
1 x Bandages
1 x Whisker Harp <- ONLY FOR NEMESIS FIGHTS
1 x Cat's Eye Circlet <- REALLY GOOD!

Weapons - Any combination of the following
King's Spear
Cat Gut Bow + Claw Head Arrow
Katar + Lucky Charm + Fecal Salve/bandages/circlet (With Rawhide armor)
Bone Club

It's OK to build Bone Swords and Bone Darts early on. I'd skip on the bone axe because if you want to min-max you want monster grease asap and the Axe uses organs. Swords and Darts however help a lot. Bone Dagger is straight up terrible. It's OK to make an axe if you have a lot of organs or you really want to use an axe however.

Skip Innovating for the first 2-3 years so you can concentrate on making gear.

Take Survival of the fittest from breeding. If you have 14 population to start, make a baby and pick accept darkness.

Next goal after the butcher is leather armor, Screaming Armor at least 1 leather shield (pref more), weapon crafter stuff (Zanbato, Counter weight axe in particular) and innovating for Symposium, Paint and Inner Lantern.

Build a dedicated tank character with shield + lots of evasion and armor.

Screaming Armor, leather, rawhide are all really good. White Lion armor is best left for later plays as it's under powered. 2 Speed Weapons are perfect, 3 Speed weapons are OK, 1 Speed weapons are excellent. 4+ is for advanced play.

Once you have paint you can consider fighting Level 2s and the Phoenix, but I would recommend you over equip for them, aim for 3+ full armor sets, a good pool of survival (5+), decent evasion (2+ or higher) and a total of 5-6 strength between the survivor and the weapon they use (or lots of luck + deadly).

If you are having a lot of trouble, take Murder, Skull Eater, Plague and Cracks in the Ground out of the Settlement Event deck as those ones are the kind that can cripple early settlements. It's your game, do what you need to in order to have fun.

Good luck!
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The Awaited King
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The only thing I don't agree is to skip Innovating. You need to Innovate every year as far as I'm concerned. There are some crucial Innovations in the deck and you want them ASAP.

In 1.5 Survival of the Fittest is also a viable strategy. With rerolls wrong results of the events like the one with Kings Men visit can be avoided. Also remember that you could have resisted Kings Man and only loose 4 people.

Important thing: don't spread the resources among the party equally. It's a comon mistake when playing with a group. Everyone wants to have something. A party where one guy has a full rawhide set is worth much more then a party in which everyone has a piece of it.

Keep killing only Lion as long as it takes to craft Bow, Circlet and a Harp. The Spear is awesome too. One Katar is good. Paired not so much.

EDIT: 1.5 made Drums Innovation very cool thanks to the fighting arts.
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sam newman

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i usually build the following in this order of priority

Bone darts
Bone axe

Cats Eye Circlet
Catgut Bow
Clawhead arrow

Raw hide head
Raw hide torso
Rest of Raw hide set when you are able

Zanbato

Counter-Weight axe

For Butcher you will want bandages, also monster grease very useful.
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Chinh Tran
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I'm only on my first playthrough, though currently lantern year 24, so I'll give my opinion...

I probably fall in between Fen & Awaited King regarding innovations. I'd probably skip innovating that first year if it meant getting crucial gear to hunt the lvl 1 Lion, but I don't know if I'd skip 3 just because Dash is very handy against the butcher.

I actually like the Bone Axe early on because that first lvl 1 Lion has 2 higher toughness than the First Story prologue lion. +1 evasion is nice, but may just prolong the fight if you don't have enough strength to wound, which would result in more lion attacks against you and more failure reactions.
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Mark Watson
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kurczaczekx wrote:
The only thing I don't agree is to skip Innovating. You need to Innovate every year as far as I'm concerned. There are some crucial Innovations in the deck and you want them ASAP.

I don't think you need to do it every year, but I wouldn't skip it for the first few years; a simple increase in survival is going to do a lot more to keep survivors alive than any amount of bone gear or rawhide and you want dodge or surge as early as possible. Once you've got the weapon crafter or stone circle and you can get reasonable gear it might be worth focusing on that rather than innovation for a lantern year or two.
 
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Nick Wirtz
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Some thoughts I put together on planning: link
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sam newman

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Archonsod wrote:
kurczaczekx wrote:
The only thing I don't agree is to skip Innovating. You need to Innovate every year as far as I'm concerned. There are some crucial Innovations in the deck and you want them ASAP.

I don't think you need to do it every year, but I wouldn't skip it for the first few years; a simple increase in survival is going to do a lot more to keep survivors alive than any amount of bone gear or rawhide and you want dodge or surge as early as possible. Once you've got the weapon crafter or stone circle and you can get reasonable gear it might be worth focusing on that rather than innovation for a lantern year or two.

if it comes down to either innovating or getting bone darts then i would get the darts for first year,
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Fen Batten
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kurczaczekx wrote:
The only thing I don't agree is to skip Innovating. You need to Innovate every year as far as I'm concerned. There are some crucial Innovations in the deck and you want them ASAP.

If you're not winning hunts, you don't bring in more resources. Do you want a full set of rawhide to tank + monster grease or do you want symposium for +1 survival limit?

Innovating in the early game straight up makes your settlement weaker. Yes there are crucial innovations, but all of them are not needed to beat L1 monsters, they're just nice and provide bonuses before the L2 time.

Let's look at what you can get early on?

Symposium - +1 Survival Limit, well 2 is sufficient so there is no rush here. Also this is the one you're going to pick most of the time.
Drums - Not worth it until you're rushing for Saga. Sync Strike is decent, but let's face it, you're always going to pick Symp/Paint/Inner Lantern over this.
Hovel - Actively reduces population numbers by removing Twins results in place of a savior. You don't need a savior until post Butcher time. The only reason to hit hovel early is if you're rushing Clan of Death - but you only want to do that in a campaign which is flush with resources.
The +1 Survival for departing is irrelevant at this stage, you can build Fecal Salve and Rawhide to get an excess of Survival and these items are all key early game success items.
Paint/Inner Lantern - These help keep survivors alive, especially Inner Lantern, but they are not needed for L1s before the King's Man. Both are weaker at winning hunts than armor and evasion in the early game.
Ammonia - Who needs a Whip in the early game? Plus you can get this for free vs the White Lion and Gorm, it's better to aim for the free innovation later on.

Everything there is either for long term, to step up to L2s, or it's just not relevant in keeping your early game survivors alive. Nothing there beats getting a piece of rawhide, a weapon and monster grease. Especially when 2 rawhide pieces + bone sword + Monster grease = 4 evasion in the tall grass.

Generally I'm innovating by LY3, but once I started skipping LY1 or 2's innovations I found that my settlements became more robust. I usually innovate by LY3, but it doesn't hurt a settlement to be skipping the LY3 innovate if you've been hide starved due to poor draws.

It's very hard to see how good not innovating is early on until you try it out. KD:M is a snowball game, the more powerful your gear is early on, the more powerful your survivors become and the better stuff you can farm from later monsters. Build a powerful foundation for the cycle and you can be flush with resources by LY10. Heck most of the campaigns I've played recently have resulted in skipping on innovations until LY3 and by LY12+ we have so many resources we don't know what to do with them.

Survivors make resources which makes gear which protects survivors.

So, it's not about 'never innovating' it's about not falling into the lazy way of thinking 'always be innovating' which is straight up a mental trap.
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David Sintec
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I tried skipping innovating for the first couple of years with my most recent solo settlement. Seems to be working out pretty well so far (LY10). Had 2 full sets of rawhide before the butcher turned up which helped (although not enough to avoid a TPK sadly, I had some nasty AI draws that fight and it went south quickly as a result).

Managed to beat the Kingsman for the firts time last night though and we've been slaying Lv2 Antelope regularly for the last few years. So it seems to have worked out in the long term.
 
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Chester
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I find survival actions to be more important than early gear. But I have not tried skipping innovation. I’ll have to see what I think.

I don’t really worry about a few lost survivors as long as the showdown doesn’t fail...so I favor choosing to innovate.

I also think ammonia has more value than described above. Protects from Plague and allows early leather, good for armor, shields and pickaxe/sickle. Waiting until you get it from lions may mean you are hunting lions longer than ideal (rather get screaming armor sooner) or lose your settlement to plague.

But I’m intrigued enough to try not innovating and see what happens. It’s not uncommon to not be able to innovate in the first couple years with an unlucky draw anyway, but I’m open to doing so deliberately.

I don’t like the idea of being dogmatic about either approach.
 
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David Sintec
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I drew enough Hide and ??? in LY1 that I could complete a full set of rawhide but only if I didn't innovate. That seemed a really good trade to me. LY2 I think I drew very few organs and those I did had better uses (Cat's Eye, whiskers, sinew). So the cards definitely lead my decision to some extent.

LY3 I'd just hit my first Antelope and came back with a tonne of resources. Finishing off a second armour set was fairly trivial and left plenty of resources for innovating; Ammonia or Hovel? I went Ammonia as I'd got no survivors with 3 Understanding at that point (so no chance to gain it from a hunt event in the near future) and I didn't really want to take Hovel this early.

It's definitely a game of making the most of what you've got. Trying to follow absolute hard and fast rules is going to fail if the cards/dice are against you. My previous settlement drew Plague LY1, they were innovating every year searching desparetly for Ammonia. Alas they had no luck nor any Understanding. A TPK to the Butcher followed by a Murder left the settlement with just 1 remaining member who wandered off alone into the Darkness.
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Nick Wirtz
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Re: not picking up innovations, I consider Paint such a limiting factor in the game (mechanics, options, interesting fights, safety) that it's something I pretty much always rush. If I already have it, I'll consider not innovating. Otherwise, I'll probably innovate unless it really messes with next year's plan.

But yeah, you're probably fine without it, pre-Butcher.
 
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Guido Günther
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Okay. Thank you all for your advice.

I see now a lot of things we did not consider.
Next week we start a new campaign and try some of your tips.

I will report how it went.

Again, Thank you.
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Gerrit G.
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fenpaints wrote:
Hovel - Actively reduces population numbers by removing Twins results in place of a savior. You don't need a savior until post Butcher time. The only reason to hit hovel early is if you're rushing Clan of Death - but you only want to do that in a campaign which is flush with resources.

Wait a second, I thought all those colored text boxes linked to specific results of dice tables are additive. So, if you have Hovel and get a 10 result on Intimacy, one of the two new survivors becomes a savior. All other colored boxes that we've encountered so far seem additive and the one about the special child doesn't explicitely state that you get a savior instead of the twins.
 
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Blue Prophet
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Star Slayer wrote:
fenpaints wrote:
Hovel - Actively reduces population numbers by removing Twins results in place of a savior. You don't need a savior until post Butcher time. The only reason to hit hovel early is if you're rushing Clan of Death - but you only want to do that in a campaign which is flush with resources.

Wait a second, I thought all those colored text boxes linked to specific results of dice tables are additive. So, if you have Hovel and get a 10 result on Intimacy, one of the two new survivors becomes a savior. All other colored boxes that we've encountered so far seem additive and the one about the special child doesn't explicitely state that you get a savior instead of the twins.


I thought a savior was one of the twins as well. That is what I did with the single savior I've gotten so far.
 
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Oda
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Star Slayer wrote:
fenpaints wrote:
Hovel - Actively reduces population numbers by removing Twins results in place of a savior. You don't need a savior until post Butcher time. The only reason to hit hovel early is if you're rushing Clan of Death - but you only want to do that in a campaign which is flush with resources.

Wait a second, I thought all those colored text boxes linked to specific results of dice tables are additive. So, if you have Hovel and get a 10 result on Intimacy, one of the two new survivors becomes a savior. All other colored boxes that we've encountered so far seem additive and the one about the special child doesn't explicitely state that you get a savior instead of the twins.


The 1.5 rulebook removed the word "instead" from the Special Child so I would play it as one of the twins was born a savior. I don't have the older rulebook for reference but I would assume the removal of this word confirms this intention.
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The Awaited King
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If you will carefully analyze all the colored boxes in the Story Events you will see that it's "instead" not "in addition".
 
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BG.EXE
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It doesn’t matter THAT much though because you can also only have 1 Savior at a time now. So you have 1 population you shouldn’t have, if you played that wrong.
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Igor Persin
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Do any of you decide to house rule some situations when game simply decides to fuck you to due bad rolls, and might as well just restart camapign, because you will probably just prologue you death, but end is inevitable?
 
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Chinh Tran
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cornjob wrote:

I also think ammonia has more value than described above. Protects from Plague and allows early leather, good for armor, shields and pickaxe/sickle. Waiting until you get it from lions may mean you are hunting lions longer than ideal (rather get screaming armor sooner) or lose your settlement to plague.

Have to agree with this. I was facing the King's Man without shields because I never innovated Ammonia, hoping to get it from the Lion hunt event.
 
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kurczaczekx wrote:
If you will carefully analyze all the colored boxes in the Story Events you will see that it's "instead" not "in addition".


I understood it like that in the case of the savior birth, but some others are somewhat confusing. The one giving +1 strenght to the newborn is clearly in addition, but what happens with the regal visit for example? If you have the right principle you get the bonus instead of the punishment? I wasn't playing it like that, but can't find anywhere on the book saying it works one way or the other...
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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Yeah, you get the bonus instead of the punishment. When an arrow connects the result and a textbox, you apply the textbox text INSTEAD of the normal result text.

Whenever there is no arrow pointing the result, but just an additional textbox which says "if you have X innovation" or similar, you apply that textbox if you meet the requirements IN ADDITION to any other roll result you are required to apply.
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t3clis wrote:
Yeah, you get the bonus instead of the punishment. When an arrow connects the result and a textbox, you apply the textbox text INSTEAD of the normal result text.

Whenever there is no arrow pointing the result, but just an additional textbox which says "if you have X innovation" or similar, you apply that textbox if you meet the requirements IN ADDITION to any other roll result you are required to apply.


This read would not fit the case of gaining +1 strength on the newborn if you have innovated beds. That has an arrow pointing to it, but can only be applied if you do the text in the roll box and the text in the box linked by an arrow.

I also cannot see anything in the rules that says what to do with these coloured boxouts.

That the "instead" wording has been specifically removed from 1.5 suggests to me twins, one of which is a savior (unless you already have a savior - the other new savior rule in 1.5).
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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Yup, it does not work in all cases. I'd say that I never had a second thought on interpreting the boxes (and it turned out to be - I think always, differently from many other rules I got completely wrong - the correct interpretation), so it never occurred to me that there is room for misinterpretation.

If you see the stuff mechanically only, well, yes, there is no consistency in how a result gets substituted or simply upgraded, the only hint being "instead" tossed there in most substitutions.
 
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