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Mythic Battles: Pantheon» Forums » Rules

Subject: Perseus immune to area attacks by monsters? rss

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Rene Wenzel
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In our last game we had the case that chimera could do its area attack on an area containing Perseus.

we played it that way that he could guard the attacks (and then have to take the damage), but attacking him was not possible because of his power. the rulebook is not clear about that or did we miss something?
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Jonas Kissling
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Good question!

First I suggest to always write down the rules text.

"Monster Hunter
Talents and powers of monsters do not affect Perseus, even if he wants them to."

Two things seem to be important:
First, the last part of the text indicates, that he wants to be affected for him to guard against it, but he cant.

Second, the power is PERMANENT. So before he is able to activate GUARD his power is already activ.
If its a question about what triggers first, the rulebook states on page 4 that the powers description have priority over the talents descriptions.

So, I would say that he cant guard against the monsters power.
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Jonas21 wrote:
Good question!

First I suggest to always write down the rules text.

"Monster Hunter
Talents and powers of monsters do not affect Perseus, even if he wants them to."

Two things seem to be important:
First, the last part of the text indicates, that he wants to be affected for him to guard against it, but he cant.

Second, the power is PERMANENT. So before he is able to activate GUARD his power is already activ.
If its a question about what triggers first, the rulebook states on page 4 that the powers description have priority over the talents descriptions.

So, I would say that he cant guard against the monsters power.


I'd argue than he CAN guard but that the attack simply wouldn't affect him in any way. If they had worded it "can not target Perseus" the matter would be different.
 
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Jonas Kissling
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But there is nothing for him to use his guard against, because his power is permanent and triggers anyway before the talent...
But an official statement would be nice...

Edit: hmmm... I see your point with the keyword "target". We need an official judge
 
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David
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Guest wrote:
I'd argue than he CAN guard but that the attack simply wouldn't affect him in any way. If they had worded it "can not target Perseus" the matter would be different.



That seems pretty unbalancing - Perseus would effectively be an impenetrable forcefield in his area against all monster powers that are attacks.

If he cannot be affected by powers, even if he wants to be, that says to me that he can't declare himself to be the target of a monster attack with Guard.
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Jonas Kissling
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AmadanNaBriona wrote:

That seems pretty unbalancing - Perseus would effectively be an impenetrable forcefield in his area against all monster powers that are attacks.


Good point...
 
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D Conklin
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First thing I notice is that it's a passive power, not a permanent...so if he takes a complex action, he loses Monster Hunter for that activation.

Secondly, checking the wording again:


Special Attack:
A type of power that can
only be used during a unit’s activation,
and only if it chooses to take simple
actions. Use of the special attack power
counts as the unit’s attack action for
that turn.


Guard:
If a friendly unit in the same area as this unit is
attacked
, you may change the target of the attack to
this unit. You must declare the use of Guard in step
2 of the combat sequence.

Linking the words in italics, it seems to me he can declare Guard ... but I could be convinced otherwise.

If he can, then the attacker's alternative is just to do a normal attack with Perseus as the target to soften him up.

Thematically, the effect is to make monster's pay attention to him over other units...which, considering he is a monster slayer, makes sense.

EDIT: added to Topics for FAQ:

Perseus
Does his Monster Hunter power prevent him from Guarding Special Attacks?
 
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Jonas Kissling
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Oh yes you are right, its of course passive power...

 
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Brendan Dolan
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Perseus is a tricky character, blanket statements always seem to have the most "but what about ___" situations. To figure out what to do, I'm looking at this from the perspective of the monsters. And looking for comparable characters.

First, the Chimera, his text says "At the end of Chimera's activation, make a [extra attack(s)]". This power seems to modify the ability of the Chimera, not modify Perseus, so I don't think Perseus would be immune to this.

Compare this to some other units:
Ladon
"Whenever a unit declares Ladon as the target of an attack, they suffer an immediate 5 dice attack". This is phrases as "the target suffer" no "Ladon does this", so Perseus seems to be a immune.

Python
"Whenever a non-flying unit enters Python's area, it immediately suffers...". Again calling out that something that happens to Perseus, rather than something Python does.

Now, how does this compare to other units that might modify attacks. I think Apollo is a good comparison. Apollo is addressed in the official FAQ - With Apollo's Lyre saying that "... Until the end of Apollo's next turn, no unit may attack Apollo" - with the FAQ stating that this includes the area attacks on Apollo's area. The reason I see this as relevant to Perseus is because Apollo's wording calls out "attacks" specifically (same language for Aphrodite). So because text about attacks are phrased differently, I read that to mean that you can attack Perseus, but you can't make him suffer, modify him, stick tokens on him.

Looking for monsters that pressure test this theory: Ketos seems to be a complex example. Ketos can make an extra attack which adds tokens to a unit. This seems to be phrased as:
1) Ketos allows himself to make an attack (have at it Ketos, target Perseus).
2) If damage occurs, bad things happen to the hero (at which point tokens would be added and the unit suffers - all of which Perseus is immune to).
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Dominick Piantoni
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It's powers and talents that don't have an affect on him, not attacks. So talents like torment, mighty throw, block, etc have no affect on him from a monster. All attacks from powers from a monster have no affect on him also. So a monster can do a simple attack action on him and that's it.
He is supposed to be the bane of monsters, and it's a passive power so it's in play as long as he hasn't taken a complex action.
That's how I would read it.

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Rene Wenzel
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MonkeyD609 wrote:
It's powers and talents that don't have an affect on him, not attacks. So talents like torment, mighty throw, block, etc have no affect on him from a monster. All attacks from powers from a monster have no affect on him also. So a monster can do a simple attack action on him and that's it.
He is supposed to be the bane of monsters, and it's a passive power so it's in play as long as he hasn't taken a complex action.
That's how I would read it.



ok. I'm not clear what you are saying.

1) he wouldn't get damage by an area attack?
2) if he guards, he will be damaged?
 
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Dominick Piantoni
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If the attack comes from a power it does not affect him. Monsters can only simple action attack him.
EDIT: Guard only works when you are blocking an incoming attack against your unit in the same area as him. You can't guard area attacks
 
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Jonas Kissling
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MonkeyD609 wrote:

EDIT: Guard only works when you are blocking an incoming attack against your unit in the same area as him. You can't guard area attacks


?
Part of an area attack is, that all units are attacked, each one seperately. Thats why we are discussing. Can he guard an other unit when there is an area attack?
Its not the question if can block the whole area attack, but the individual attacks...
 
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Dominick Piantoni
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Sorry I thought I read it can't be used on an area attack but page 18 says different. For that I'm sorry.
Yea he could guard as many friendly units in his area as long as he is not destroyed. Making an area attack from a monster's power in his area negated since he can block each declare attack, being that monster hunter makes their talents and powers have no affect on him. He is absurd against monsters and that is his point.
 
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Emil Vincent Alonzo
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So reading over the various responses, is the general (unofficial till they finally answer the FAQ thread) consensus that Perseus can be the target of Talents and Powers, but that they have no effect on him?

Meaning he could Guard (change a Special Attack target to him), but the attack would have no effect since the Special Attack is a power?

Also the Chimera additional attack power is questionable too... I can see the point @Obsidiox is making above that the Chimera is just making an extra attack, but I can see the argument that since the power generated that attack it could be seen as a "power" too and negated...

Bringing up Apollo is a good comparison actually (previous comment), since his power specifically says he cannot be attacked, and indirectly saying he cannot be targeted by an attack as well, and so I don't think he could Guard (not that he has Guard, but hypothetically) since the attack couldn't target him right?

 
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Becq
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I can't speak to the consensus, but I plan to play that "Perseus can be the target of Talents and Powers, but that they have no effect on him". Based on the discussion above, that seems to best follow the text of the powers. At least until an official FAQ says otherwise.
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Rene Wenzel
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I see that we won't find a solution on that topic and wait for the faq
 
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