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Triumph & Tragedy» Forums » General

Subject: The Axis player rage quits . . . now what? rss

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The Soviet and West players have responded skillfully to a wildly aggressive and optimistic Axis player. The Axis player’s plan for a quick win has been thwarted, and the Axis is being relentlessly pushed back on all fronts. Frustrated that no one seems to remember that only a ONE player can win this game, the Axis player rage quits and vows never to play again.

Congratulations. So, now what?

The good news is that the game can continue! Download and read these two-player rules:

East/West Germany Two Player Game

According to the Introduction . . .

The Soviet player controls the West Germans (The Ruhr and Munich), and the West player controls the East Germans (Berlin). The Italians are controlled by the Soviet player until Soviet units enter an Italian home area, in which case they become controlled by the West.

Here’s what you do mid-game:

The Soviet player takes over the following with these priorities:
1. All Axis units embattled with the West’s units
2. All Axis units and areas in the West’s Home Territory, Major Powers, and colonies
3. All Axis-controlled units, countries, and areas generally west of Berlin including:
The Ruhr, Munich, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, The Low Countries, Spain, Portugal, and Italy
4. All Axis-controlled areas that are later attacked by the West

The West player takes over the following with these priorities:
1. All Axis units embattled with Soviet units
2. All Axis units and areas in Soviet Home territory
3. All Axis-controlled units, countries, and areas, Berlin and generally east including:
Finland, The Baltic States, Konigsberg, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Austria, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Albania, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Turkey, Persia, and Afghanistan
4. All Axis-controlled areas that are later attacked by the Soviets

The Axis player’s cards are shuffled and split between the East German and the West German factions. If there’s an odd card left over, it’s discarded. Both factions then draw an Investment card and an Action card for their German faction.

If Italy is no longer in play, East/West Germany rule 18.31 Axis Production is amended to read that no production needs to be spent in Italy, and that an odd number of production points is increased by one before splitting.

Enjoy!

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Michael Sosa
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I actually had to encourage an Axis player to not quit a game last night. He went for the peaceful economic victory game and both rivals declared war on him in 1941. I took Rome as West while Russia invaded Easter Europe. He got hammered production wise but in 1942 West and Russia went at it for Baku / India so although the Axis player was distraught he couldn't complain too much!

This is an interesting variant worth trying! I'll keep it in mind.
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Adam Ruzzo
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It is one of the major downsides of the game IMHO. Often one faction is out of the running for victory by 1940 and has to sit there pushing bits around for the next 2 hours while the other sides decide who wins.

This is most often a problem with the axis player as they have to take risks in order to win, and if those risks don't pay off, they lose all initiative and can't win.
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Brett Johnson
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DieterS wrote:

The Soviet and West players have responded skillfully to a wildly aggressive and optimistic Axis player. The Axis player’s plan for a quick win has been thwarted, and the Axis is being relentlessly pushed back on all fronts. Frustrated that no one seems to remember that only a ONE player can win this game, the Axis player rage quits and vows never to play again.

<snip>


IMHO, the bigger problem here is the meta problem of losing a player permanently...

Honestly, if the attitude of the other players was what your email indicates (forgetting only 1 player can win and it's NOT a 2 vs. 1 game), not wanting to play again may be reasonable.

The game is *not* balanced for 2 vs. 1 play.

The Axis game tempo tends to be win early or midgame or not at all.

The Axis should expect to be squeezed in the late game when fighting on 2 fronts. If the Axis looks like it will win in the mid-game via an economic victory, it's normal for whatever side is still at peace to attack.

However, if the West & Russia take the early attitude of "let's beat on the Axis" from the get-go, the game doesn't work.

Fortunately, I don't see this problem in the people I play with, but there is a simple meta-game solution to the problem if the West and Russia gang up and both DOW the Axis early.

As the Axis, simply hand the game to whichever did not DOW you first.

However, if the game proceeds reasonably normally, the Axis should expect to be fighting on both fronts in the late-mid to late game. Under these circumstances, the Axis probably either wins early/mid-game or not at all, but I have seen the Axis win a late game victory under these circumstances.

Given that the game only takes ~6 hours, playing a losing position is not an unreasonable time commitment. And assuming you are swapping sides around on different plays, everyone will be in the situation from time to time.

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Brett,

Yes, I agree.

Also consider that the Axis starts ahead of the other two rivals to begin with. The Soviets and West players pretty much have to beat down the Axis to begin with . . . but not too much.

The West starts the weakest but has a big boost in the mid to end game with U.S. entry. The Axis is located between the Soviets and the West, leaving only Scandinavia and Persia/India (maybe Turkey) to its rivals to fight over. So if both rivals are at war with the Axis, there's much to gain by their dawdling while the other Rival takes the brunt of the Axis military power.

I also agree that the Axis has the power to determine who will accompany them in losing, a reality that they should use to full advantage. Otherwise, Triumph and Tragedy will simply be a race for Berlin.

There's also a viable strategy for the Axis to gain several defendable satellites and then do a full stop, Turn Turtle (tm), and concentrate solely on building massive armies with high technology that no Rival would want to attack.

Dieter
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J. R. Tracy
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DieterS wrote:


There's also a viable strategy for the Axis to gain several defendable satellites and then do a full stop, Turn Turtle (tm), and concentrate solely on building massive armies with high technology that no Rival would want to attack.


That makes for a surprisingly tense and interesting game. We had that happen once and the war didn't kick off until '44 but it was an apocalypse all around between the tech and the fully built out armies. Germany was one pip short of an auto victory when the balloon went up.
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Adam Ruzzo
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Honestly I would add some sort of sub-goal for any situation where one player is obviously out of the running. There's "Total Victory" and a "minor victory" for all three players. Only one player can win total victory, but the other players can still vie for a minor victory as opposed to total defeat.

It could be as simple as "the game doesn't end until 1944." This would encourage the "losing" player to fight hardest against whoever is winning (and help deal with the "kingmaker" problem as well).
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Hi Adam,

For your enjoyment and experimentation, here are some minor victory end-of-game "sub-goals" based on historical plans. However, assigning victory points to these would take a massive amount of play testing. It's tempting though.

Deutschland Uber Alles Victory
The Axis controls Poland, Leningrad, Belorussia, Kiev, Odessa, Bryansk, Sevastopol, Kharkov, Stalingrad, Kuban, Grozny, Georgia, and Baku.

Generalplan Ost Victory
The Axis controls Poland, Baltic States, Leningrad, Belorussia, Kiev, and Odessa.

Grossdeutschland Victory
The Axis controls Austria, Czechoslovakia, Western Poland, and Switzerland. This goal is based on Hitler's nationalist/racist ideology.

Caucasus Victory - Operation Pike
The West captures and holds Baku at the end of the game. To supply a modern army with oil, the Soviet player must have trade access to Baku or Romania. Otherwise, the Soviet player can build only Infantry and Fortress steps or units, and all its military units are limited to 1 area per season. The same restrictions also apply to the Axis. The Allies planned to use bombers, 100 divisions, and three months.

Roman Restoration Victory
Control over Tunisia, Malta, Libya, Egypt, Albania, Greece, and Turkey (Izmir). Austria cannot be a Satellite of the Axis (i.e. Germany). In the event, the Axis were able to take over all but Malta and Turkey.

Austria-Hungary Restoration Victory
The Axis (Germany) must control Austria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Croatia, and Lvov at the end of the game. Once this victory is announced, Austria-Hungary becomes a neutral protectorate of Germany (capitals in both Vienna and Budapest), and Italy leaves the Axis to become an unaligned neutral.

Oslo States Victory
In 1930, a seven-nation organization called the "Oslo States" consisting of Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, and Luxembourg was founded, which ultimately focused on keeping its member states neutral. In May 1938, the Oslo States issued a joint declaration of neutrality in the event of a European war. The West scores an Oslo Victory if all seven states are neutral at the end of the game.

Dieter

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Brett Johnson
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Ugg/Oof... Heavy...

Not that I think it needs it, but it might be interesting to have a set of additional bonus and/or penalty cards giving each side a secret objective and penalty.

Revealed at Victory declaration or end of game.

Example:
Axis Bonus Cards (+1 VP each) -
1) Have at least Atomic-1
2) Control Spain as ally
3) Turkey is Axis controlled or has +2 Axis Influence
4) Have at least 20 Naval/Sub CV
5) Researched Jets
etc.

Axis Penalty Cards (-1 VP each)
1) France has not been conquered (i.e., still Major)
2) Axis controls no pop in N. Africa
3) Axis controls no territory in Russia
4) Axis never successfully blockaded Britain (i.e., reduced their production via blockade)
5) Axis never attempted to land a unit in Britain
etc.
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The advantage of employing specific secret goals/bonuses/penalties is that rivals work toward national goals that are somewhat in character with history. It provides players with a more consistent, long term motivation more than simple opportunism.

Worth thinking about.

Dieter
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Alec D.
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I just wouldn't play with that axis player again. Some of my favourite T&T moments occur when I'm finally pushed back to the defensive as an axis player desperately trying to stabilize my fronts, constantly reorganizing troops and hoping for a potential opening where I can blitz to a capital or cut off a large force.
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Nice! :-)

I'd never thought about it, but maybe, there should be victory points for *surviving* a two-against-one situation until the end of the game . . .

Dieter
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