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Target for Today» Forums » General

Subject: Are there really so few of us players? rss

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Joe Carter
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I'm an old-school pen & paper war gamer from the early 1980s, when anything and everything World War II was so popular. I love the detail and endless possibilities of these types of games, but it's disturbing how little activity there is here. I have searched for other Target for Today forums, but this one seems to be it.

I do realize that tablet and smartphone video games are super popular these days, and that pen & paper war games have very little following in comparison. I'm guessing that most players of these great pen & paper war games are Generation X or older, and have to wonder if we old-school players are a dying breed.
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Lou Correia
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I'm not sure there are so few users. I'm not surprised that a small percentage to find Board Game Geek, and many have reasons to only lurk.

I discuss Target for Today in the Solitaire Wargamers group on Facebook with over 4000 members listening in, even if they don't plat TFT. The B-17 Queen of the Skies group has 272 members, many who play TFT.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/696814367063190/

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Lou Correia
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And if you want to play with other TFT players or ask questions:

http://509th-vbw.proboards.com/

http://www.stevenkdixon.com/Target_for_Today_Campaign.htm

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?8@@.1dd58f17
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Matt A.
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I don't know that forum activity necessarily indicates the number of players. For the most part I come here for rule clarifications. Most of the time I can find them without posting a question myself.
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Joe Carter
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Thanks for the quick replies.

I agree with Lou that there are a probably a lot of lurkers here. Personally, I don't use it, but perhaps many players are posting on FaceBook.

I'd be curious to know the ages of current players of TFT and other war games like it. I'm guessing that most players are older due to the fact that it seems younger people these days are less interested in World War II things.
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Dan Nelson
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I'm 30, and this was my first wargame that wasn't on a computer.
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A G
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I am here too. Unfortunately I didn't play much because the game is on queue, too many other games to try; hopefully in a couple of months I can go in deep for it
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Tom Cundiff
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Just last week here on BGG there was a poll taken addressing that very question, "how old are wargamers" and we found that the population of wargamers less than 40 years old was sparse indeed. While the population of wargamers over 50 was dwindling (for obvious reasons). The larger part of the population of wargamers are those who came to the hobby post 1980. We are indeed a dying hobby.
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middle 40 here, playing videogames since I was 6 and boardagames from last year
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Mike Adams
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50 here and I prefer table top board games over video.
Don’t get me wrong I can spend hours on my PlayStation but there’s just something abt setting up and playing a board game that video can’t match.
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yeah can't disagree with that. since I start playing boardgames I gradually reduce the amount of time for videogames. the real frustration I am finding out related boardgames is the low accuracy you may get on manuals, revision, errata and so on. You spend good money for a game and a month after if not less you have to print out a bunch of stuff; this is very annoying me....probably I am getting too grumpy
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Francisco Gutierrez
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There are definitely some young wargamers. I fancy myself a wargamer (I've played some of the classics, but mostly modern stuff), and I'm 26. Heck, I'm posting because this thread caught my eye as I was looking for a rule clarification during a game.

I'll admit, it was a little strange to meet with "the war gamers" at my FLGS. They were all twice my age, stuck to the classics, and were pretty smart dudes.

That said, my group was a welcoming bunch who introduced me to some cool games. As long as you grognards keep talking, you'll find a millennial or two who will be interested.
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Tom Cundiff
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The bad thing is that all too many of us will be talking to daisies shortly.
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Joe Carter
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Nice to see so many replies in this otherwise quiet sub-forum. It really does appear that most are lurking.

As for me, I'm 46. I have nothing against computer or video games (I love Panzer Corps), but to me they are too limiting due to having to constantly spend lots of money to keep hardware updated in order to play the latest 3D games. Plus most computer war games will never be detailed or realistic enough for me.

With solo and multiplayer tabletop war games, the only limiting factor is our imaginations. We can add or tweak whatever we want very quickly- no programming or hacking skills required. The level of detail and realism found in TFT and other affordable tabletop war games is absolutely amazing and could never be made into a computer game.
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Jim P
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joetaco wrote:
There are definitely some young wargamers. I fancy myself a wargamer... ...and I'm 26.


It is nice to see under 40 wargamer's. Much less one that sports the less known Lother van Richthoften as your avatar. And his personal colors in your uber badge too. Werner Voß is my favorite German ace of all time.

My oldest is 26 and I have introduced him to Dawn Patrol and Wings of War: Famous Aces at an early age. Though he is more into newer board games and video games we will still pull out a wargame now and agin. I get together with him and a few of his friends to game at least once a month.

One thing with the industry, and pulp culture, has done is the Zombifications of many most games. Including wargames. Even one game that was based off of the "Kelly's Heroes" movie has a Zombified version. then these company's will concentrate on that version detracting from the original theme. I assume it is done to drag in the younger, "Walking Dead", demographic.

As for this game, Target for Today, or it's grandfather, B-17: Queen of the Skies, there is quite a following in all age ranges. Heck, B-17: Queen of the Skies, is ranked 280th in war games and 1,174th over all. How many games are on BGG? I think this is pretty good for a game going on 40 years old. When I was running the 281st BG campaign on B-17:QotS page I would get 30-50 players sign up and an average of 20 plus playing on any one mission. I think our top mission posted 42ish players. Not bad for an old solitaire wargame played on line. As Lou mentioned in a previous post there are still a few campaigns going on right now.

Enjoy these war games,
Jim cool

PS, I'm going to be 60 later this year... don't tell anyone please!
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Jim P
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Cundiff wrote:
The bad thing is that all too many of us will be talking to daisies shortly.


Who is Daisy? I don't know any Daisy's. And I don't plan on talking to any of those for many, many, many years either!
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Joe Carter
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Jim, it's funny that you mentioned TSR's Dawn Patrol. It was the first tabletop wargame I ever played way back in 1983. Loved it.
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Michael Melen
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And for those who are really ancient, such as myself, there is Richthofen's War or even Dogfight! I've spent many hours with both games.
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Tom Cundiff
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Me too, played them both in my youth.
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Michael
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Cundiff wrote:
Me too, played them both in my youth.


But your still IN your youth whistle
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Tom Cundiff
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What's left of my white hair says otherwise.

I found the thread here where the poll was taken about the ages of wargamers now:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1905551/wargamers-what-gene...

The numbers look bleak both for new wargamers and for the slow demise of the Baby Boomers.
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Joe Carter
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Cundiff wrote:
What's left of my white hair says otherwise.

I found the thread here where the poll was taken about the ages of wargamers now:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1905551/wargamers-what-gene...

The numbers look bleak both for new wargamers and for the slow demise of the Baby Boomers.


Young people these days have a choice of more distractions (FaceBook/Twitter, video games, YouTube, zillions of smartphone apps, etc.) than ever before in history. I'm not sure traditional hex and counter wargames can hold their attention spans anymore. Not enough flashy mind stimulation.
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Jim P
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mjmelen wrote:
And for those who are really ancient, such as myself, there is Richthofen's War or even Dogfight! I've spent many hours with both games.


Richthofen's War was the first wargame I ever played in the mid 70's. My older brother brought home this one along with France: 1940 and Regatta. We would play these over and over. Regatta was a big family hit in our house. It took some time but I was able to acquire this one and I still have the other two from my brothers original purchase.

I have Dogfight that I started my oldest boy on to get him interested in war games. Probably why he liked Dawn Patrol and Wings of War: Famous Aces. I even have the Nova series of Ace of Aces: Handy Rotary Deluxe Edition.

These older games are great!
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Tony M
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I'm 60 years old, and started wargaming in the early 1970s. My first game was 'Barbarossa' from SPI.

I don't know if we cardboard-and-paper gamers are a dying breed, but my own participation in the hobby has declined a lot in recent years. I don't have the disposable income I used to have--mortgage, health insurance deductibles, car repairs and other things have priority.

Also, I just don't have the free time or mental energy I used to have. Many newer wargames are, to me, just too complex. I bought 'Target for Today' because it deals with a subject that interests me a lot, and it will probably be the last single-aircraft solo game on the European bombing campaign to be published in my lifetime. Because I bought 'B-29 Superfortress' years ago, I bought 'Target for Today' knowing that it would be unplayable without discarding rules and procedures and tables that I think take too much away from the flow of the game. The game is just waaaay too detailed to be fun without a lot of tweaking. I played six missions before I put it away because it was such a headache. I will play it again someday, but not just now.

I realize that this level of mind-numbing detail appeals to some of you--maybe a lot of you. But I think sometimes designers are so close to their work they forget about the "game" part of wargaming. When a game feels more like a 9-to-5 job, what's the point? Does a game really need to simulate absolutely every single microscopic part of a military action?

Over the last 7-8 years I did some playtesting, and I'm surprised at how weak some game designs are. This has also made me very reluctant to spend what little extra money I have on wargames. I no longer subscribe to any wargaming magazines. Over the last 7 months I have spent more time working through chess problems than playing wargames.
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Chris Milis
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I'm 37, love all sorts of games. I'm just so busy with kids, work- I'm a medic in the Ambulance service, house work etc. Etc.
I have to steal the odd moments for games which sadly are just that.
Target for today is awesome and is faithfully waiting for me!!

Regards to all!

Chris
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