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Subject: Deal Making (D3) patent cards rss

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Jeff
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Is there ever a time when adhering to 3rd edition rules that a player can provide a card to another player without simultaneously receiving one in return?
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Colin Booth
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Re: Dealing Making (D3) patent cards
Yes, stack cards (things boosted or built) can be traded for whatever you want (FFTs, WTs, faction privileges, etc). The only thing you can't do is do an asymmetric trade of cards in hand (so Shimizu can't broker cards from their hand for example).
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Jeff
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Re: Deal Making (D3) patent cards *answered*
Does that mean that if I remove a card from my Bernal stack orbiting Earth, the player receiving the card could place it directly onto their Bernal stack that is dirtside at Saturnian Norse Moonlets? Or does something belonging to both players have to be colocated in order for one player to provide a card to another?
 
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Colin Booth
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Re: Deal Making (D3) patent cards *answered*
D3, bullet point one wrote:
FFTs or cards colocated in space can be exchanged among players either to create new stacks or between colocated stacks. Transferred cards can't be further transferred until next turn. WT transfers can occur between HOME ORBITS


That means I can trade you an Ion Drive at my Bernal for access to your ESA Beamed Power, but you don't get to change where the Ion Drive is located. On your turn you could decommission it into your hand and then take an industrialize action to build it somewhere else, but you can't teleport equipment around the map via trading.
 
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Jeff
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Re: Deal Making (D3) patent cards *answered*
Do you mean take an ET Production Operation instead of industrialize action?

Also, I don't know that the line from the rule book helps clarify because the use of colocated in the rule that you cite is what is causing my confusion. Other than the trading of cards in hand, why does it state "colocated" if players do not need colocated game components in order to make a transfer of a card?
 
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Michael Mesich
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Is this coming from previous play experience?

It seems like we're extrapolating that "trade a stack card" means place the stack card in space making it an outpost for the receiving player who can then decommission the card on his/her future turn or presumably pick it up physically later.

What if the receiving player doesn't have an available outpost that they are willing to jettison contents from?

I don't see a good argument for or against simply taking the stack card and giving it to the recipient as a patent card in hand.

What if the stack card is ET produced? What governs the mechanics of the trade then?

I need more concrete information!

 
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Colin Booth
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binge gamer wrote:
Do you mean take an ET Production Operation instead of industrialize action?

Yes

Quote:
Also, I don't know that the line from the rule book helps clarify because the use of colocated in the rule that you cite is what is causing my confusion. Other than the trading of cards in hand, why does it state "colocated" if players do not need colocated game components in order to make a transfer of a card?

Hand Cards and faction privileges do not need to be colocated (obviously). Water Tanks can be transported from one home orbit to another. FFTs and cards in space can only be transferred between two colocated items (as per bullet one) or (as inferred via other timing rules such as the ability to non-feloniously decommission a colonist with an integral reactor as part of an Industrialize to simultaneously create a factory and a colony) to create an outpost holding the newly transferred card.
 
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Colin Booth
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mmesich wrote:
Is this coming from previous play experience?

Yes

Quote:
It seems like we're extrapolating that "trade a stack card" means place the stack card in space making it an outpost for the receiving player who can then decommission the card on his/her future turn or presumable pick it up physically later.

I'm extrapolating that "trade a stack card" means I take a card that is part of a stack (outpost, bernal, or ship) and give ownership of it to you without moving its physical location in the gamespace. A card located at Earth-Luna L4 cannot move from that place without being moved by a game effect such as a ship, regardless of ownership transfer.

Quote:
What if the receiving player doesn't have an available outpost that they are willing to jettison contents from?

I don't see a good argument for or against simply taking the stack card and giving it to the recipient as a patent card in hand.

If the active player is the one receiving the card, only the vagueness of the timing rules dictate if you do or do not need an available outpost marker to receive a card where they do not have a ship, bernal, or freighter present (the question here is if it counts as an immediate jettison as per D1.5, I would be inclined to allow the receiver to either establish an outpost or immediately decom the card).

If the inactive player is the one receiving the card, they must establish an outpost regardless of timing rules since you can't technically perform actions on other people's turns, which includes the voluntary decommissioning of hardware. In the case that the active player is trading away a stack card and the recipient does not have the components needed to create an outpost, I would rule that the trade cannot be performed at that time. That said, you can wait until it is that players turn at which point they are the active player and can receive and decom the card immediately.

Quote:
What if the stack card is ET produced? What governs the mechanics of the trade then?

The same rules govern the mechanics. There is nothing that says that if we trade on-board cards we have to do all trades in the same place, just that the individual cards cannot teleport across the board.
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Brent Barker
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Quote:
If the active player is the one receiving the card, only the vagueness of the timing rules dictate if you do or do not need an available outpost marker to receive a card where they do not have a ship, bernal, or freighter present (the question here is if it counts as an immediate jettison as per D1.5, I would be inclined to allow the receiver to either establish an outpost or immediately decom the card).


I recall that the rules state that you can have more than 2 outposts during your turn, but must not have more than 2 at the end of your turn. So you could create an outpost in which to receive the card, then immediately decommission it.
 
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Colin Booth
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You're right. E2, under the "Limits" bullet covers the rules around outpost counts. The "E6 LIMIT" sidebar entry reiterates this.
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