Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
32 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Sentinels of the Multiverse» Forums » General

Subject: How would you fix this game? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
ghost whistler
United Kingdom
flag msg tools


Ah Sentinels. I love the theme and the fact you can tell the devs have the love for the genre.

But the bookkeeping.

Can it be simplified? Could you have fewer types of damage without losing out (you'd have to rework characters like Absolute zero).

There were also two other issues that ultimately put me off the game:

1. the early game is just an exercise in holding out until you get your cards out and can do something. Deckbuilders are like this (even though this isn't), Legendary for example is far too easy because once you've survived a couple of turns (and you will unless the villain deck is shuffled REALLY badly) you'll have built a deck largely powerful enough to win without trouble.

2. it's a very easy game to exploit. Playing against Matriarch? Pick someone who can deal with multiple enemies and she's no threat at all. Otherwise get pecked to death. Clever villain concept, but you can pick heroes who shut down the villain you're fighting too easily. Just like Legendary where if you're playing against Magneto you just pick Xmen characters and they are much more powerful against him.

Not really sure why I'm comparing it to Legendary as I've no particular love for the game (too easy, no challenge at all IMO).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brett Austin
Japan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Something that Red Dragon Inn has is the ability to discard and redraw. This could alleviate some bad draws in a way.

Having randomized villains would alleviate your handpicking problems. You'd then have to worry about player count so ...

Removing the bookkeeping ... Remove HP with power cards. Character cards are lifepoints and when knocked down, abilities are knocked down as well. Just a thought.

Good Luck with your query.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dániel Lányi
Hungary
Budapest
* -Not Applicable-
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ghost whistler wrote:

But the bookkeeping.


print this out boardgamegeek.com/thread/1516897/hero-minion-villain-health-... and buy the extra token pack, it has start of turn and end of turn effect reminders. Those two really made it better for us
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob Rob
United States
Tampa
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Something which helped us (outside of using the Sidekick app) was changing the way we indicated damage.

Normally you place damage tokens on a card to indicate damage taken. We've changed to placing tokens = total HP on a card at the start and subtracting/adding tokens as damage is dealt/subtracted.

This makes it easy to tell at a glance who has "highest/lowest HP."
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Take Walker
United States
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wait, why would you add tokens to show damage taken? c.c That's just asking for a math headache every time you need to calculate highest or lowest!

For bookkeeping, it's the kind of thing that gets easier the more you play. The digital game of course takes care of all that for you, if that's something you're interested in.

As for certain heroes shutting down certain villains, that is a thing that happens. It's just a question of how honestly you want to pick a team. Do you go with "Here's how we definitely win" or "Just pick your favorite, it's okay if we lose"?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ghost whistler
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
It's not just heroes shutting down villains, it's also the otherway round. It wasn't fun knowing that if i wanted to throwdown against X with Y I could get utterly crushed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dérek Boily
Canada
Québec
Quebec
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ghost whistler wrote:
It's not just heroes shutting down villains, it's also the otherway round. It wasn't fun knowing that if i wanted to throwdown against X with Y I could get utterly crushed.


The designers are very proud to say that any and all match-up can be won somehow. The community has yet to find a match that can never be won. Some mixes are notoriously harder than some others, but considering the insane amount of permutations allowed (when you add in all expansions), it simply means you can modulate how much of a challenge you want in your game. Not sure how it is bad for this kind of game...?

I mean, some cards are clearly designed to work in some edge case scenario against specific villains, and in that regard I think you are right to say that the game can be easily exploited. This is why my group almost always pick random teams against random villain in a random environment. It forces you to find new and imaginative way to leverage the powers of your hero but also how those heroes work together. Exploring this is a huge part of the game, to me and my group at least.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vadim Golembo
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

I think the one major design flaw is the lack of iconography to denote start of turn and end of turn on all card effects.

You should be able to scan a card for at least a "green up arrow" and know that the effect should happen at the start of turn and maybe a "red down arrow" for end of turn... at the least. Instead of re reading each and every card down the line.

just my 2cents.

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nerds call me
United States
N Denver
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MrLeRobot wrote:
ghost whistler wrote:
It's not just heroes shutting down villains, it's also the otherway round. It wasn't fun knowing that if i wanted to throwdown against X with Y I could get utterly crushed.


The designers are very proud to say that any and all match-up can be won somehow. The community has yet to find a match that can never be won. Some mixes are notoriously harder than some others, but considering the insane amount of permutations allowed (when you add in all expansions), it simply means you can modulate how much of a challenge you want in your game. Not sure how it is bad for this kind of game...?

I mean, some cards are clearly designed to work in some edge case scenario against specific villains, and in that regard I think you are right to say that the game can be easily exploited. This is why my group almost always pick random teams against random villain in a random environment. It forces you to find new and imaginative way to leverage the powers of your hero but also how those heroes work together. Exploring this is a huge part of the game, to me and my group at least.


Agreed. To say the game is easy to “exploit” is odd to me. It isn’t about making the strongest team all the time. It’s about finding interesting and fun combinations of heroes, villains and environments.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Kiyoshi
United States
California
flag msg tools
Never had a problem with bookkeeping before

The early game is pretty much holding out till you’re strong enough and I think that it adds tension to the later game. Definitely makes you choose wisely.

Pick your heroes then do a random villain pick. Or pick a permanent hero for each player and play through a “campaign” of all the villains.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Take Walker
United States
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MrLeRobot wrote:
The designers are very proud to say that any and all match-up can be won somehow. The community has yet to find a match that can never be won.

Specifically, there's a thread over on the GTG forums where someone whipped up a spreadsheet of all hero variants and all villains and we kept track of who had beaten them. The very last matchup was Setting Sun Ra vs. Iron Legacy, which finished the spreadsheet sometime last month.

They're all beatable. They're not all equally easy. I should know, I did like half of them. c.c;
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
darksurtur
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Play the video game. Then you won't ever have to keep books again.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Gardner
United States
Phoenix
Arizona
flag msg tools
I started using poker chips to track hit points and the book keeping got much simpler. Very easy to eyeball which targets still have large stacks of chips and it’s very satisfying to pull a large stack of chips away when you get a really good hit on the villain.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Arnold
Canada
Halifax
NS
flag msg tools
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ghost whistler wrote:
Playing against Matriarch? Pick someone who can deal with multiple enemies and she's no threat at all.


Sounds like you missed some text on the Matriarch's character card. Destroying the fowl has a price. "Whenever a Fowl Card is destroyed, the Hero with the highest HP must either destroy one of their Equipment or Ongoing cards, or The Matriarch deals them (H-2) psychic damage."
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Everything between now and the next game is just killing time
England
London
Agitation
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MrLeRobot wrote:
ghost whistler wrote:
It's not just heroes shutting down villains, it's also the otherway round. It wasn't fun knowing that if i wanted to throwdown against X with Y I could get utterly crushed.


The designers are very proud to say that any and all match-up can be won somehow. The community has yet to find a match that can never be won.

I thought someone mathematically proved an Advanced Ennead game with Heroes only dealing Melee and Projectile damage couldn't be won before Shu came out?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Arnold
Canada
Halifax
NS
flag msg tools
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't believe Christopher has said that any set of heroes can beat any villain on advanced (which is explicitly noted as not being balanced).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Laudermilk
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I use either the official sidekick app or Sentinels Commander app to alleviate the bookkeeping. I have the extra tokens pack and make liberal use of the Beginning of Turn and End of Turn tokens. Lastly (well, really, firstly) I randomize at least to some extent the matchups--usually using the Sentinels Randomizer app, or the randomize function in Commander when using non-canon decks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damien Post
msg tools
Gr1mAce wrote:


Removing the bookkeeping ... Remove HP with power cards. Character cards are lifepoints and when knocked down, abilities are knocked down as well. Just a thought.

Good Luck with your query.


I quite like the sound of that.. I think. Could you elaborate a bit more on how it would work? Cheers
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathan Rine
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Pfft I never had it easy hell even lost to AMBUSCADE at one point. Sure he dies easy but while bookkeeping can be hard specially when your only one whose played sotm but I hardly ever had a game too easy.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
France
flag msg tools
The Orzhov welcome you. Please leave your belongings with the Obzedat. They are not yours anymore.
badge
Hi, I'm a european crested tit, and a very small punk rocker!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'll be that guy, but Aeon's End fixed Sentinels for me.

It's the upgraded version.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dániel Lányi
Hungary
Budapest
* -Not Applicable-
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Razoupaf wrote:
I'll be that guy, but Aeon's End fixed Sentinels for me.

It's the upgraded version.


Does it have the "as a superhero I will now sacrifice myself to save the day" moments?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Stull
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Razoupaf wrote:
I'll be that guy, but Aeon's End fixed Sentinels for me.

It's the upgraded version.

I’ve played Aeon’s Edge but it doesn’t entice me quite as much. So I would not call it an upgrade. The theme is different and it’s more akin to a deck builder.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
glennfrogknight
United States
Madison
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Sonvar wrote:
Razoupaf wrote:
I'll be that guy, but Aeon's End fixed Sentinels for me.

It's the upgraded version.

I’ve played Aeon’s Edge but it doesn’t entice me quite as much. So I would not call it an upgrade. The theme is different and it’s more akin to a deck builder.


It IS a deckbuilder. Very different games.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Todd McCorkle
United States
Anderson
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
N0mE wrote:

I think the one major design flaw is the lack of iconography to denote start of turn and end of turn on all card effects.

You should be able to scan a card for at least a "green up arrow" and know that the effect should happen at the start of turn and maybe a "red down arrow" for end of turn... at the least. Instead of re reading each and every card down the line.

just my 2cents.


I agree, this would have been nice. I usually don't have trouble with start/end of turn effects, but a color coded highlight would have made things easier.

I would also add something for "whenever" effects. When FU happens, do BAR
kind of thing. Those are the ones I most easily miss. Someone else suggested this, but I like the idea of start of turn effects in green. End of turn effects in red. Whenever effects in purple. Something to make things stand out and allows players to scan the table and only read the cards that might pertain.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randall Garlington
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmb
N0mE wrote:

I think the one major design flaw is the lack of iconography to denote start of turn and end of turn on all card effects.

You should be able to scan a card for at least a "green up arrow" and know that the effect should happen at the start of turn and maybe a "red down arrow" for end of turn... at the least. Instead of re reading each and every card down the line.

just my 2cents.



The extra tokens pack has placards that denote cards with start of turn and end of turn effects as well as several other factors regarding damage modification and powers.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.